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[Survival] It's time to talk 1.13

Started by Towelie, Dec 06, 2017, 02:11 PM

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Towelie

Dec 06, 2017, 02:11 PM Last Edit: Dec 06, 2017, 02:15 PM by Towelie
It's time to talk 1.13 and what this will mean for Survival.
At the very least this will mean at least ~30% of our current plugins becoming broken, this will include some of the older premium shop perks. Please note that we will not offer any refunds, but after maximum ~2 months after updating, if we are not able to bring that perk back, we will offer you premium shop credit so you can get something new.
It's not really clear what plugins will break and it's not really possible to predict which plugins will break.

Quote from: SpigotMCDubbed the technical update, Minecraft 1.13 will be the next major version of Minecraft to be released. This release will include a lot of long awaited changes and refactorings to both the client and server, and as a result is expected to be the largest CraftBukkit/Spigot release since 1.8, and the largest Bukkit (API) release ever. We have already spent around 50 hours on snapshots and are starting to get a pretty good (although purely speculative) idea of what the impact will be to plugin developers and server owners.
Because one of the primary goals of the Bukkit API is to provide a stable interface for plugins across a variety of platforms and versions, changes have to be made with the right balance between stability, featureset, and maintenance. With this in mind we have decided to target the following changes:

    Block type IDs will be completely removed
        This is a change which started to be implemented over four years ago, unfortunately there are still plugins out there using block IDs when they shouldn't be, including some fairly popular ones. Virtually every occurance of block IDs currently has an Material replacement available for usage right now. If your plugin, or a plugin you use exposes IDs in any form we strongly recommend you work to get it upgraded right away as this may be a somewhat involved process (albeit one that should have been done years ago).
    Block data values will be deprecated
        All instances of byte data values, and MaterialData usage will be deprecated. Although the byte data values have also been deprecated for a very long time, many of them do not currently have suitable replacements. As such we will be providing support for them on a best effort basis. This means that plugins using these APIs will (hopefully) run to some degree, but you should not expect complete or consistent support. We strongly recommend waiting for updated versions for the best performance and data...

This may mean that a ton of plugins will break, possibly even some essential ones like autoshop plugins and so on.
There is also the slight possibility that a full reset will be needed, but there is no conclusive information towards that yet.

I would just like to re-iterate that if the need arises, I will do what I believe best for Survival, and I will not listen to players, even if the vast majority decides a way or the other. For example if you guys vote for us to stick to 1.12 forever (in case we need a full reset), I will not accept that, because that would mean condemning SFT to a fast death. Obviously, I will do my best to listen to you for reasonable things, but ultimately, I am the custodian of this server and some times I have to take the tough decisions.

I don't know which plugins will break, I did inform @darknuju and @ColesyM to update their plugins and I will be talking to @fearthe1337 as well for that.

TL;DR version-> 1.13 is coming and will probably break half of our plugins. Be ready for stuff to not be the same, and for a lot of stuff to break (premium shop perks, autoshop plugin, etc). While we will indeed find a fix or replacement for this plugins it may be a while (I'm talking months from when 1.13 is out) in which we will have to stick with a minimalistic server.
Also, there is a low possibility that we will have to do a full reset with 1.13, in which case I will do it regardless of the desires of the community (because the only alternative would be remaining on 1.12 and that would condemn the server to death)


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xQuicScopex

1.13 will BREAK 1.12 worlds according to devs, once a world is loaded in 1.13 it can never go back

blakus87

Could we not stay 1.12 u till the plugs are fixed and then update? Or am I being simple.

Towelie

Quote from: blakus87 on Dec 06, 2017, 02:59 PMCould we not stay 1.12 u till the plugs are fixed and then update? Or am I being simple.
That would mean staying on 1.12 for months time in which we would stop receiving any new joins. Playercount decreases dramatically when you are a version behind, and seing as our playercount is already low, we can't risk that.


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Towelie

Quote from: xQuicScopex✪ on Dec 06, 2017, 02:55 PM1.13 will BREAK 1.12 worlds according to devs, once a world is loaded in 1.13 it can never go back
Link pls. I'm curious if that means that it will CONVERT the worlds or you simply cannot load a world whatsoever from 1.12


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blakus87

Quote from: Towelie on Dec 06, 2017, 03:08 PM
Quote from: blakus87 on Dec 06, 2017, 02:59 PMCould we not stay 1.12 u till the plugs are fixed and then update? Or am I being simple.
That would mean staying on 1.12 for months time in which we would stop receiving any new joins. Playercount decreases dramatically when you are a version behind, and seing as our playercount is already low, we can't risk that.

That's fair.

xQuicScopex

Quote from: Towelie on Dec 06, 2017, 03:09 PM
Quote from: xQuicScopex✪ on Dec 06, 2017, 02:55 PM1.13 will BREAK 1.12 worlds according to devs, once a world is loaded in 1.13 it can never go back
Link pls. I'm curious if that means that it will CONVERT the worlds or you simply cannot load a world whatsoever from 1.12
I saw it on the mojang reddit so ill try to refind it, and according to it, it will convert your world over to 1.13 so itll work but if you decide to go back you cant (also advises having a backup of your world because can cause corruption)

stormshooter

did someone say full reset?


Mazeworker

I'd say just do a full reset... at least we can open The End and have that option open... ether way I'd still play.

reiner_13

Dec 07, 2017, 01:46 PM #9 Last Edit: Dec 07, 2017, 09:46 PM by reiner_13
The Best Survival Elite
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Lucy_23x

LETS GATHER OUR ARMY AND STORM THEM

AHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Quote from: sparkydeathcap on Feb 17, 2016, 04:07 AMand also; how old are you? I've always imagined you as like a old irish man that drinks whiskey and screams at people to get off his lawn while sitting on a bench in the park. But I'm pretty sure that's not the case because if it was: 1. you're a pedophile and 2. you're a pedophile

George

Towelie when it becomes 1.13 don't update the server. It takes like 5 days to make all plugins work correctly
Hey! Sorry but you don't have permission to view that!

MrChanango

Quote from: George_Filos on Dec 07, 2017, 06:13 PMTowelie when it becomes 1.13 don't update the server. It takes like 5 days to make all plugins work correctly
But when the plugins would be corrupt, and we wait for the actual plugins to update by the devs, it becomes more like 5 weeks or more.
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saywhat2365

Quote from: xQuicScopex✪ on Dec 06, 2017, 03:33 PM
Quote from: Towelie on Dec 06, 2017, 03:09 PM
Quote from: xQuicScopex✪ on Dec 06, 2017, 02:55 PM1.13 will BREAK 1.12 worlds according to devs, once a world is loaded in 1.13 it can never go back
Link pls. I'm curious if that means that it will CONVERT the worlds or you simply cannot load a world whatsoever from 1.12
I saw it on the mojang reddit so ill try to refind it, and according to it, it will convert your world over to 1.13 so itll work but if you decide to go back you cant (also advises having a backup of your world because can cause corruption)
That's generally always the case anyway.

BluetigerESW

Quote from: George_Filos on Dec 07, 2017, 06:13 PMTowelie when it becomes 1.13 don't update the server. It takes like 5 days to make all plugins work correctly

Sorry to disappoint you, but it'd most likely take a lot more than 5 days lol
I enjoy the act of xD-ing, like if you agree

karnold

We don't need a full reset for survival...

The same thing happened to pix and now no-one plays it regularly. <-- just a thought


Towelie

Quote from: Karnold on Jan 09, 2018, 10:05 PMWe don't need a full reset for survival...

The same thing happened to pix and now no-one plays it regularly. <-- just a thought
Uhm, did you not read the post? We may HAVE to do a full reset, so it's not whether we want to or not.


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Dpa1991

Quote from: Karnold on Jan 09, 2018, 10:05 PMThe same thing happened to pix and now no-one plays it regularly.

You should probably know what you're talking about before you try to throw around facts. The reason pix is dead is a lot more complicated than us doing a "full reset" which we didnt.

Dday694

Quote from: Towelie on Dec 06, 2017, 03:08 PM
Quote from: blakus87 on Dec 06, 2017, 02:59 PMCould we not stay 1.12 u till the plugs are fixed and then update? Or am I being simple.
That would mean staying on 1.12 for months time in which we would stop receiving any new joins. Playercount decreases dramatically when you are a version behind, and seing as our playercount is already low, we can't risk that.

I mean honestly, staying at 1.12 will not kill you. Pix went almost 2 years without updating to the newest version and it had a consistent high player join count. You could just hold off on it until you can work on corresponding plugins and having a majority of them ready for 1.13.

You have to equally expect the risks in updating. If you run into the new update with your legs blown off and hope that the new player join rate will fix one issue, then expect other issues to arise such as broken commands/aspects of what survival uses as well as discontent from some older players.

You really can not risk that as well.

Towelie

Quote from: Dday694 on Jan 11, 2018, 07:21 AM
Quote from: Towelie on Dec 06, 2017, 03:08 PM
Quote from: blakus87 on Dec 06, 2017, 02:59 PMCould we not stay 1.12 u till the plugs are fixed and then update? Or am I being simple.
That would mean staying on 1.12 for months time in which we would stop receiving any new joins. Playercount decreases dramatically when you are a version behind, and seing as our playercount is already low, we can't risk that.

I mean honestly, staying at 1.12 will not kill you. Pix went almost 2 years without updating to the newest version and it had a consistent high player join count. You could just hold off on it until you can work on corresponding plugins and having a majority of them ready for 1.13.

You have to equally expect the risks in updating. If you run into the new update with your legs blown off and hope that the new player join rate will fix one issue, then expect other issues to arise such as broken commands/aspects of what survival uses as well as discontent from some older players.

You really can not risk that as well.
I'm afraid vanilla players don't wait so much for an update as modded server folks. modded server folks are used to lax upgrade schedules, every time there's an update we lose quite a lot of the playerbase until we update


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SpeashuLK

So.. everything reset? like VW and all?

Towelie

Quote from: SpeashuLK on Jan 12, 2018, 01:14 PMSo.. everything reset? like VW and all?
In case we have to, yes. It will be a case of us HAVING to rather than me choosing to. However, I believe they willl make current worlds convertible so we may not need to.


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xavidram

md_5 posted about the Bukkit 1.13 API preview that is out for testing. https://www.spigotmc.org/threads/minecraft-1-13-api-preview-1.296779/
It is not a full release rather md_5 setting up the Bukkit API to provide as much support for older plugins. From the look of things, they will be setting up the API to do meta data conversions to Block IDs. I do not know if this will be temporary to provide as much support for older plugins while they allow developers to update their plugins to the new block referencing style, but it is a nice start. @Towelie

Towelie

I saw that, it will most likely be temporary but still good.


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