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[Pixelmon] We Built this Server on Pixelmon and Toast (But What Now?)

Started by Dday694, Jan 27, 2018, 06:06 AM

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Dday694

Pixelmon is at a crossroads that cannot be ascertained it's fate.

I really did not want to be the one to write and begin this open conversation, but I feel I need to as the issue of it should have been brought up long ago.

As you know....Pixelmon is in all honesty the worst position it has been since it's existence. There are many reasons for this, some in our control, some not. I myself take full responsibility for the faults that I have/have not done which is partly the reason Pixelmon is in the position it is now. I have been with this team since 2013 and I am deeply saddened how we have virtually went from one of the best to non-existent. However I do believe there is many things we can do with the modpack still. Things that can be from radical, to even extreme if needed.

However, before I go any further I want to clarify that nothing I will say here is set in stone. This is merely an opening for a discussion of what we can do to help the current Pixelmon server. This is also my own thoughts alone. Dpa and I have talked about some of these issues time and off, but he has not fully approved of anything that I am proposing/talking/ranting.

When it comes to this modpack in its current state, the one issue that seems to get in the way is the power needed for the mod itself. Now back when this mod was small(er), a lot more people could play because the models for the pokes were a lot less refined to simple sprites. Over time however the sprites have gotten more high-def (with some even being ported from the sun/moon games) and with those more quality models come more space/power needed to run them. Not to mention the additional data needed for about 800+ pokes and their models, code, etc. As of right now, there is a current update that apparently will fix a lot of these model issues and lower the space/fps needed to run them. However the update is also suffering a high CPU issue (where if in single player you will not notice it, but if you add more then 2-3 people, you will not be able to do anything) with no set timetable to be fully functional.

Another issue that is severely hurting Pix was the update, namely, the move from bukkit to sponge. With the move, we lost virtually all our plugins from autoshops/economy, to ranks. No matter what plugin we could find to try to replace them, it would not work. Not only that but some of the plugins we could find to help with the pixelmon side are either to unpredictable, or are just not working right.

Lastly, we were not prepared for this update at all. We did have a plan and everything for how it would have been worked on, however things happen. But unfortunately, the announcement was made right when our world was corrupted (twice mind you) everything was lost and then irl stuff happened where we had to suspend work. By the time we were able to get back on track, too much time has passed and a lot of people simply moved on. With no external support, we were doomed.

But you know, when life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what the hell am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager! Make life rue the day it thought it could give this nub lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the nub who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons! I'm gonna get my magikarps to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!

This server even with the current flaws it has is an amazing server still. Excluding the Pixelmon mod alone it has a great working complement of Biomes O' Plenty, Chisel and Bits, Pam's Harvestcraft, and so many more that flesh it out and can make it so much better. Which is why what I am suggesting (AGAIN THIS IS JUST MY OPINION HERE) a few ideas that could help pixelmon either regain it's glory, or go down in a final tailspin.
 
As I said beforehand, the current version is although beautiful with many of the pokes and items, it is very slow with fps issues. However a lot of these issues are not as bad in a single player world, where you are the only one that needs to load in items. A while back we worked on a multiplayer adventure world for the pixelmon server that never materialized because of the whole EULA thing with Mojang and Wild West being the adventure world launched. One suggestion could be that because of our current lack of players, we temporarily shut down the multiplayer server and create a true single player Pix adventure world, with puzzles and npcs/command block interaction. Then once released, we would have a multiplayer available, but only for things such as events and maybe survival only aspects, where it's used more as a socialization place (and then if enough peeps are present then launch an official pix multiplayer again).

One suggestion that could be done is to remove the Pixelmon mod altogether. As I said before, this server has many other mods that work together flawlessly. We could just make those mods (and use all that free space that pix gives us to add in additional mods) to make a completely new server.  I wouldn't know how well this would go (as I know a lot of you solely play Pixelmon for the name it is called) but it could be something that is still different with new concepts and ideas altogether.

Another extreme suggestion I have heard is backtrack and just stick with our previous version of 1.8. Now that honestly wouldn't be the worst idea as we would get all our plugins back and it would be a lot easier for some people to run/ play on it. However the one concern I need to point out would be that we would be way, way, wayyyy back on many things from items in the base game that 1.12 has now to other mods being backtracked. I honestly wouldn't mind this but, I do not think it will help get new players (in a way I'm saying this isn't like Runescape classic where new people will join still, I think it will stagnate).

I would love to hear your thoughts on this to try to help create a discussion about what we should do. If you think none of these ideas are good (which I will admit are not perfect in anyway), then give some thoughts about your own ideas that you think would work! I know there are many of you out there that really do want to keep playing on the Pixelmon server and want to see it be back in its former glory, but the best way to help is to hear your thoughts on what we should do to make this work for everyone as best as we can.

Like I said beforehand, Pixelmon is at a crossroads that cannot be ascertained its fate, unless you nubs help pitch in and give us some insight on what you think we should do to fix it!

TeaLeafs

I've got two opinions/suggestion things:

First, if we wanted to help revive pixelmon, we would need alot more than just what we have now. As it currently sits no one is really playing pixelmon due to lack of players, I mean who would want to play on an empty server meanwhile single player works just fine? I think branching out to try a single player adventure map or even making the server a sort of adventure map itself (Maybe pixelmon island? If no one knows quite what that is, I can explain, though I know its quite the popular thing). Its really difficult to say we can revive pixelmon as I (personally) find its gone down too fast and too far to bring it back up. Though if any ideas come up, im happy to lend a hand in trying to restore it

Second, The idea of booting pixelmon and making this a brand new sort of pack... Im interested. A reason I think pix is coming to an end is its old news. People have been playing it for years and maybe are just getting bored of the basic pixelmon survival(link this idea back to my first opinion) Maybe creating a new pack surrounding other things could give a new, fresh thing to SFT and bring some playerbase back. I have a love for making mod packs, so if any suggestions on that, im happy to help as well.

As a player since 2014 It would definitely hurt to let pixelmon go, but really, all good things come to an end and the final decision is Dpas. Even after seeing many ideas to keep pixelmon or revive it, if none are going to work or see no point, do what YOU think is best. Though some may be upset, if they really did care about Pixlemon, they would be playing and show they care, And as of now, that isnt showing at all.

I really want to help this in anyway possible, and I have a few more ideas, but for now ill stick with these ideas. If the other ideas want to be known, just let me know, ill be happy to share
I give up on putting photos here.

theP

1. the server is too empty... big surprise...no one is ever gonna start playing on a server with 0 players...
---> should we add enough suggestions here for dpa to deem them "worthy" of being added (basically him spending even more time) we would need a way to get people who already play on sft to play on it for a month in order for it to look full, thus attracting new players (hopefully)

2. turn hunger back off... I know we voted hunger, especially cause we have a whole mod based on it, but hunger isn't very new player friendly. I remember I played on sft specifically cause I was creeping around on the other pixelmon server like a snail, while our pix was cool and let me explore the world, find my favourite pixelmon WITHOUT me constantly starving

3. s h o p - p l u g i n s or managers+ to replace it... this is really what drove me away this time around.... yus dpa i ain't farming for 5k hours just to build something, especially when you promise to add it to the shop soon!

(4. shiny starters... for the new players.... to make them stay)

(5. make voting drop keys to open crates to get some actually good stuff.... we all know why.... if not... (gaaaametheory)    )

6. events... check the big pix servers.... they have set tournament schedule and regular events

7. increase legend spawns again... during those last few days that I experienced players the semi-new ones always complained that legends were too rare, why not change that so people get the nice and fuzzy "OMG I CAUGHT A LEGEND!!! OMG OMG!!!!" feeling more often?

Quote from: TeaLeafs on Jan 27, 2018, 01:54 PMMaybe pixelmon island?
uuh you would have to dedicate the whole server to be a pix island server... and while a few might find it extremely fun (myself included) more people want a normal server (I think)

Quote from: Dday694 on Jan 27, 2018, 06:06 AMAnother extreme suggestion I have heard is backtrack and just stick with our previous version of 1.8.
While I can only approve of it and it might get some people back cause of nostalgia i don't think its a longterm solution... pix is the deadest its ever been and will probably ever be and going back to a version where the server was dying too will probably lead to the same fate... though a bit slower...
 


TeaLeafs


Quote from: theP on Jan 27, 2018, 04:43 PM
Quote from: TeaLeafs on Jan 27, 2018, 01:54 PMMaybe pixelmon island?
uuh you would have to dedicate the whole server to be a pix island server... and while a few might find it extremely fun (myself included) more people want a normal server (I think)

You don't have to delicate the entire server to be pixelmon island...?  Multiple worlds was a thing previously done and it /may/ be able to be done again. Again this is all based on the plugins or work that needs to be done, and if its 10xs the work, then it may not be the best idea. If two worlds is not possible at this point, than my idea isnt the best, but seeing that we dont know everything that is or isn't capable of being done, I think Pixelmon island is still an idea in the running.

I give up on putting photos here.

Towelie

This is purely my two cents, I did not run this by dpa so it is not an official point of view, just Towelie's opinion
- Going single player only -> I don't see how that could help SFT... Like at all
- Downgrading -> Uhm, yeah, no. One of the reasons pix began dying for was that we weren't able to upgrade to the newer version soon
- Performance issues -> I assume the devs will fix these issues at a certain point in time. I mean, Dpa and I spent a bit of time trying to get debug info for Pix developers to identify this issue (VisualVM thread dumps, CPU sampling, etc)
- Turning pixelmon into a new modpack -> We have a choice already of modpacks: bTeam or Lost. I don't see a reason creating yet another modpack with similar functionality. Pixelmon was unique because it was Minecraft + Pokemon.
- The notion that what hurt Pix was the move from Bukkit to Sponge -> Pix Classic was online for a long period of time, in parallel with Pix. If that was the reason then PixClassic would've still been popular.



Follow me on Instagram (i post cool stuff) https://www.instagram.com/toweliewtf/
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theP

 
Quote from: Towelie on Jan 27, 2018, 07:46 PM- The notion that what hurt Pix was the move from Bukkit to Sponge -> Pix Classic was online for a long period of time, in parallel with Pix. If that was the reason then PixClassic would've still been popular.
partly correct.... new pix took all the players from old pix... and i think its no secret that no one wants to play on an empty server, so that's more the reason why it died out as soon as new pix launched, and not that the old plugins were worse (or only comparable)

Quote from: TeaLeafs on Jan 27, 2018, 07:42 PM
Quote from: theP on Jan 27, 2018, 04:43 PM
Quote from: TeaLeafs on Jan 27, 2018, 01:54 PMMaybe pixelmon island?
uuh you would have to dedicate the whole server to be a pix island server... and while a few might find it extremely fun (myself included) more people want a normal server (I think)

You don't have to delicate the entire server to be pixelmon island...?  Multiple worlds was a thing previously done and it /may/ be able to be done again. Again this is all based on the plugins or work that needs to be done, and if its 10xs the work, then it may not be the best idea. If two worlds is not possible at this point, than my idea isnt the best, but seeing that we dont know everything that is or isn't capable of being done, I think Pixelmon island is still an idea in the running.


its possible (plugin wise at least), but dividing the server again... would be... less than optimal
edit:
thinking about it more: it would be possible to have them alongside each other but it would really just destroy the feeling from pixelmon island... that you cant break stuff; have to defeat Pokemon to get the items you need (making it increadibly easy most of the time, if you dont want to make it a grind)... relatively hard leveling would be gone too cause you could just switch world and go into the ta, and yet if you were to adapt the ta or the level of wild Pokemon it would really matter.

-->it certanly seems possible and would be unique at this point in time... but i doubt it would attrackt enough attention to justify all the work that would have to be put into it

Tombo_


ping99811

The lemons paragraph was by far the best part of this post. Cheeky little reference!

diamondcc888

     I PERSONALLY believe that creating a WHOLE new modpack could be beneficial.  As sad is it is to see Pixelmon go, we have to be "unique" in our modpacks and strive to attract more players without a half-inactive commonly-seen PIXELMON community.  Nowadays, Pixlemon servers can be found everywhere, and only the big Pixelmon servers will actually do good.  Since we have both B-Team and Lost, we should use completely different modpacks that have not been used before and create a new twist to SFT, that will eventually attract new attention from new places. Lastly, Another reason why I think the modded servers have been brought down was because they weren't UP TO DATE! I find being "up-to-date" the MOST important thing a modded server can have and be.


(I am actually preferring a WHOLE different modpack, with like Mo'Animals, or just a mod that adds more mobs and a ton of new items that have never before been seen on the SFT Community)

Best Regards,
Diamond.

diamondcc888


Dpa1991

Quote from: theP on Jan 27, 2018, 08:20 PM[attach]Quote from: Towelie on Jan 27, 2018, 02:46 PM[/attach]
Quote- The notion that what hurt Pix was the move from Bukkit to Sponge -> Pix Classic was online for a long period of time, in parallel with Pix. If that was the reason then PixClassic would've still been popular.
partly correct.... new pix took all the players from old pix... and i think its no secret that no one wants to play on an empty server, so that's more the reason why it died out as soon as new pix launched, and not that the old plugins were worse (or only comparable)

Wrong, Pix classic was dead long before I updated.

Dpa1991

Quote from: theP on Jan 27, 2018, 04:43 PM1. the server is too empty... big surprise...no one is ever gonna start playing on a server with 0 players...
---> should we add enough suggestions here for dpa to deem them "worthy" of being added (basically him spending even more time) we would need a way to get people who already play on sft to play on it for a month in order for it to look full, thus attracting new players (hopefully)
All servers start with 0 players.

Quote from: theP on Jan 27, 2018, 04:43 PM2. turn hunger back off... I know we voted hunger, especially cause we have a whole mod based on it, but hunger isn't very new player friendly. I remember I played on sft specifically cause I was creeping around on the other pixelmon server like a snail, while our pix was cool and let me explore the world, find my favourite pixelmon WITHOUT me constantly starving
I don't think hunger is that big of an issue, removing hunger would make pams completely useless and pointless to have in the server. Keeping hunger on puts more minecraft back into pixelmon, which I think classic was lacking on.

Quote from: theP on Jan 27, 2018, 04:43 PM3. s h o p - p l u g i n s or managers+ to replace it... this is really what drove me away this time around.... yus dpa i ain't farming for 5k hours just to build something, especially when you promise to add it to the shop soon!
We have shop plugins now, I was going to release the shops to the players but I stopped working on that since no one plays anymore. What takes you 5k hours to farm for that can be sold in player shops?

Quote from: theP on Jan 27, 2018, 04:43 PM(4. shiny starters... for the new players.... to make them stay)
Unsure about this, a shiny starter wont make anyone stay especially since they'll be completely worthless in a short time.

Quote from: theP on Jan 27, 2018, 04:43 PM(5. make voting drop keys to open crates to get some actually good stuff.... we all know why.... if not... (gaaaametheory)    )
I wasnt able to figure out the crate plugin, but I could give it another shot.

Quote from: theP on Jan 27, 2018, 04:43 PM6. events... check the big pix servers.... they have set tournament schedule and regular events
I'm one person, I cant manage multiple servers and run events on the server - I'm sure you noticed, pixs staff team is less than desirable.

Quote from: theP on Jan 27, 2018, 04:43 PM7. increase legend spawns again... during those last few days that I experienced players the semi-new ones always complained that legends were too rare, why not change that so people get the nice and fuzzy "OMG I CAUGHT A LEGEND!!! OMG OMG!!!!" feeling more often?
Legends spawn quite frequently, any more then they would not be special and will just be just another thing to catch.

Quote from: theP on Jan 27, 2018, 04:43 PM
Quote from: TeaLeafs on Jan 27, 2018, 01:54 PMMaybe pixelmon island?
uuh you would have to dedicate the whole server to be a pix island server... and while a few might find it extremely fun (myself included) more people want a normal server (I think)
I'm not really all that interested in a pix island server to be honest, doesnt sound great to me.

Quote from: theP on Jan 27, 2018, 04:43 PM
Quote from: Dday694 on Jan 27, 2018, 06:06 AMAnother extreme suggestion I have heard is backtrack and just stick with our previous version of 1.8.
While I can only approve of it and it might get some people back cause of nostalgia i don't think its a longterm solution... pix is the deadest its ever been and will probably ever be and going back to a version where the server was dying too will probably lead to the same fate... though a bit slower...
The only benefit to going to an older version of pix would be that its easier for players to run - and even with that, it won't be enough because of how dated the server would be. Everyone wants the latest version because it has so much more content.
 
The good news is the new version of pix (1.3.2) is loads better than 1.3.1, just waiting on a few fixes and then we can update. They're also moving pix to minecraft 1.12 which has even better ram usage (I think I've heard its closer to what 1.7 is, I'd have to actually look into it to know) so once the performance issues are sorted, I think we can revive pix - we just have to start with the staff team, which I think we should start with a fresh slate.


Oh and no, I am not starting a new modpack without pix. Pix is the primary focus of this modpack.