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Introducing Survival 2.0

Started by Towelie, Jul 08, 2018, 04:29 PM

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stormshooter

Quote from: Towelie on Jul 09, 2018, 07:42 AM
Quote from: TeraStorm on Jul 09, 2018, 01:51 AMTransferring over the top 5 auto shops is a horrible idea
And why is that?  Having autoshops is important, as it gives people a place to buy stuff when the emp is closed and having more than one will help provide some competition. Also, I am not letting them keep any of their items or anything...
SFT is largely a survival / economy server and people want to be more successful than everyone else. Therefore one of the main attractions for players to join or return is that there's a possibility they can succeed more. By moving over the top 5 auto shops you're just continuing the survival trend where 5 people own 90% of emp on the server. Yes you aren't moving over their items but it takes a long time for an auto shop to be built, organised and extend their name out to the player base so this gives a huge and unfair advantage. 1.13 isn't out for a while yet so why not just finalise emp prices then create a basic admin auto shop, that way after a couple weeks better priced and managed auto shops will start appearing and everyone will have a fair chance.

George

I am quitting if this happens.
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Nubbun

Quote from: George_Filos on Jul 09, 2018, 11:42 AMI am quitting if this happens.

Quote from: Towelie on Jul 08, 2018, 04:29 PMI quit! I don't want to start over
- At least give it a chance. You may be surprised how much fun you will have on Survival 2.0 starting over. You have "staled" on Survival for years, losing your drive, maybe this is what it takes to get your drive back. Not to mention Survival 2.0 will have some pretty nice features due to mcMMO such as Party XP Sharing and so on.

\(◎o◎)/

Green_Giant

I used to be super against the idea of a full reset but it does seem like a good point to do it now. I would advise not moving over any builds or autos, because let's be honest, players will find a way to stash items in their build moves that won't be noticed by staff. Might aswell have everyone start from scratch, hell i'd even be down for abolishing autos completely, or limiting the amount of auto signs one player can use, would help encourage player-run shops.

Towelie

Quote from: Green_Giant on Jul 09, 2018, 02:51 PMI used to be super against the idea of a full reset but it does seem like a good point to do it now. I would advise not moving over any builds or autos, because let's be honest, players will find a way to stash items in their build moves that won't be noticed by staff. Might aswell have everyone start from scratch, hell i'd even be down for abolishing autos completely, or limiting the amount of auto signs one player can use, would help encourage player-run shops.
Oh don't worry, every chest will be removed and we will do a thorough check for every auto moved. We need autos otherwise it's going to be chaos. I don't plan moving more than 3 autos and I don't plan letting people smuggle stuff in.


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Towelie

Quote from: TeraStorm on Jul 09, 2018, 11:38 AM1.13 isn't out for a while yet so why not just finalise emp prices then create a basic admin auto shop
Like said in the past, unless anyone points out clearly what prices should be changed and what to, there will be no emp modifications.
@Eternal_Jamie @TheStarNomad✯ or any other Survival Manager+ - any of you interested in making happen an emp price revision?

As for not moving any autoshop, I will take it under serious consideration


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Katherine

Jul 09, 2018, 03:13 PM #56 Last Edit: Jul 09, 2018, 03:25 PM by Katherine
Well for one, I'd want my items (actual object ones, not permissions) that I donated for on the new server. I donated for multiple heads and if I wanted to play on the new one, I'd want access to the stuff that I paid real money for. I see zero point in re-donating to gain stuff I already have access to.

"I'd like a world file for both worlds so I can continue my builds that I spent my time on in single player. It's the least you could do for those who have dedicated their free-time on projects." - Jinxie

you're going to bite more people in the foot than you are please, so enjoy that. I'm out.

_iPhoenix

Quote from: Tombo_ on Jul 09, 2018, 10:45 AM
Quote from: Towelie on Jul 09, 2018, 07:42 AM
Quote from: TeraStorm on Jul 09, 2018, 01:51 AMTransferring over the top 5 auto shops is a horrible idea
And why is that?  Having autoshops is important, as it gives people a place to buy stuff when the emp is closed and having more than one will help provide some competition. Also, I am not letting them keep any of their items or anything...

Then it isn't a full reset is it?

I agree with this, if everybody starts over, so should autoshop owners. Yes, it does give people a place to buy things when emp isn't open, but this isn't fair to people with small autoshops, who put in so much time and effort, only to have their autoshop removed. If everybody starts over, EVERYBODY should start over. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, just putting in my two cents.

Towelie

Quote from: Katherine on Jul 09, 2018, 03:13 PMWell for one, I'd want my items (actual object ones, not permissions) that I donated for on the new server. I donated for multiple heads and if I wanted to play on the new one, I'd want access to the stuff that I paid real money for. I see zero point in re-donating to gain stuff I already have access to.

"I'd like a world file for both worlds so I can continue my builds that I spent my time on in single player. It's the least you could do for those who have dedicated their free-time on projects." - Jinxie

you're going to bite more people in the foot than you are please, so enjoy that. I'm out.

I am not going to put the world files for download as long as the old server is still up.
As for the donated items, to be determined. The old server will still be up and you will be able to access your items there at any time.


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stormshooter

Why not put moving auto shops up to a vote

Towelie

Quote from: TeraStorm on Jul 09, 2018, 03:41 PMWhy not put moving auto shops up to a vote
Nah, it's probably for the best that I don't move them.


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Lansdiinio

About changing emp prices.. a long time ago I started working on a "fixed" emp price list that ironed out all the issues with crafting price inconsistencies, bugged names of items and adding prices for items that the emp doesn't sell for an unknown reason (e.g. just be allowed to buy a diamond pick from the emp for the price of 3 diamonds and 2 sticks). I still have this file and will happily finish it up over the next few weeks if you want @Towelie - could you DM me the latest emp price list so I can update?

The list doesn't change the core values of any items, just makes prices more consistent between crafting (i.e. crafting stairs from blocks meant for some wacky price errors due to you getting multiple when you craft them, likewise with wool prices).

Towelie

Quote from: Lansdiinio on Jul 09, 2018, 03:57 PMAbout changing emp prices.. a long time ago I started working on a "fixed" emp price list that ironed out all the issues with crafting price inconsistencies, bugged names of items and adding prices for items that the emp doesn't sell for an unknown reason (e.g. just be allowed to buy a diamond pick from the emp for the price of 3 diamonds and 2 sticks). I still have this file and will happily finish it up over the next few weeks if you want @Towelie - could you DM me the latest emp price list so I can update?

The list doesn't change the core values of any items, just makes prices more consistent between crafting (i.e. crafting stairs from blocks meant for some wacky price errors due to you getting multiple when you craft them, likewise with wool prices).
sent in pm


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Fractalion

Quote from: Towelie on Jul 09, 2018, 07:44 AM
Quote from: Fractalion on Jul 08, 2018, 07:40 PMThis is exciting, I've been waiting for this for a while!

A few questions, though:
1. You said some plugins are being removed. Could you give some examples? I assume some of the donation related ones that only one or two people actually purchased would be included here?
2. Since this will essentially reset the economy, will you be reducing the number of ways that money enters into the economy? For example, will the rewards from voting be reduced now that the economy doesn't necessarily require such inflated numbers?
3. In the same vein as #2, since this will reset the economy, will villager trading be enabled now? This would be a great opportunity to balance and enable that, probably the only chance you'll get.
4. Totally unrelated to the topic at hand, but which admin is currently in charge of Patreon coupon distribution? Easier to just ask here than to ask around xd
1. Just run of the mill un-used plugins that 1-2 people purchased, and then i'd reimburse those people in premium shop credit
2. No. Voting is important. The reason the economy was THAT fucked, was because a handful of people found ways to dupe items, and proceeded to dupe thousands of diamond stacks and whatnot.
3. Villager trading will not be enabled. It's still insanely broken and you can exploit the economy that way. Villager trading is not compatible with having an economy.
4. TheStarNomad

To be clear, what I mean is not to make voting less viable as a way of earning money, but rather to just make all the number smaller. Like, make diamonds 1/10 their current cost, make votes give 1/10 of what they currently do, make events give 1/10 of what they currently do, etc. At the moment, earning a million emp isn't really hard. You can do it pretty easily if you really want to.

By reducing slashing the cost of literally everything, you'd make the Emp seem like it's worth more, even if you technically haven't rebalanced anything at all.

I just think it'd be cool to see earning a million EmpBucks be a thing that takes effort again, rather than a thing that can be done rather trivially by mining for a little while.

I admit I could have phrased my question in a way that made what I was talking about a bit clearer, that's totally on me.

George

Quote from: Nubbun on Jul 09, 2018, 01:16 PM
Quote from: George_Filos on Jul 09, 2018, 11:42 AMI am quitting if this happens.

Quote from: Towelie on Jul 08, 2018, 04:29 PMI quit! I don't want to start over
- At least give it a chance. You may be surprised how much fun you will have on Survival 2.0 starting over. You have "staled" on Survival for years, losing your drive, maybe this is what it takes to get your drive back. Not to mention Survival 2.0 will have some pretty nice features due to mcMMO such as Party XP Sharing and so on.

No I won't give it a chance. I legit am here since 2015 and I am not willing to lose all my stuff because of Tow's "shiny" idea to destroy all of our work. If this happens SFT is dead for me.
Hey! Sorry but you don't have permission to view that!

Towelie

Quote from: George_Filos on Jul 10, 2018, 07:41 AM
Quote from: Nubbun on Jul 09, 2018, 01:16 PM
Quote from: George_Filos on Jul 09, 2018, 11:42 AMI am quitting if this happens.

Quote from: Towelie on Jul 08, 2018, 04:29 PMI quit! I don't want to start over
- At least give it a chance. You may be surprised how much fun you will have on Survival 2.0 starting over. You have "staled" on Survival for years, losing your drive, maybe this is what it takes to get your drive back. Not to mention Survival 2.0 will have some pretty nice features due to mcMMO such as Party XP Sharing and so on.

No I won't give it a chance. I legit am here since 2015 and I am not willing to lose all my stuff because of Tow's "shiny" idea to destroy all of our work. If this happens SFT is dead for me.

Then you should consider SFT as dead for you as of now. Because it will happen. And It's not the first time that happens either. Every minecraft server out there does a full reset at a certain point in their lifespan. It's needed to give people a sense of having something to do, it's needed for cleansing the consequences of some dupes / exploits and it's needed to maintain the server alive.


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Towelie

Quote from: Fractalion on Jul 10, 2018, 02:13 AM
Quote from: Towelie on Jul 09, 2018, 07:44 AM
Quote from: Fractalion on Jul 08, 2018, 07:40 PMThis is exciting, I've been waiting for this for a while!

A few questions, though:
1. You said some plugins are being removed. Could you give some examples? I assume some of the donation related ones that only one or two people actually purchased would be included here?
2. Since this will essentially reset the economy, will you be reducing the number of ways that money enters into the economy? For example, will the rewards from voting be reduced now that the economy doesn't necessarily require such inflated numbers?
3. In the same vein as #2, since this will reset the economy, will villager trading be enabled now? This would be a great opportunity to balance and enable that, probably the only chance you'll get.
4. Totally unrelated to the topic at hand, but which admin is currently in charge of Patreon coupon distribution? Easier to just ask here than to ask around xd
1. Just run of the mill un-used plugins that 1-2 people purchased, and then i'd reimburse those people in premium shop credit
2. No. Voting is important. The reason the economy was THAT fucked, was because a handful of people found ways to dupe items, and proceeded to dupe thousands of diamond stacks and whatnot.
3. Villager trading will not be enabled. It's still insanely broken and you can exploit the economy that way. Villager trading is not compatible with having an economy.
4. TheStarNomad

To be clear, what I mean is not to make voting less viable as a way of earning money, but rather to just make all the number smaller. Like, make diamonds 1/10 their current cost, make votes give 1/10 of what they currently do, make events give 1/10 of what they currently do, etc. At the moment, earning a million emp isn't really hard. You can do it pretty easily if you really want to.

By reducing slashing the cost of literally everything, you'd make the Emp seem like it's worth more, even if you technically haven't rebalanced anything at all.

I just think it'd be cool to see earning a million EmpBucks be a thing that takes effort again, rather than a thing that can be done rather trivially by mining for a little while.

I admit I could have phrased my question in a way that made what I was talking about a bit clearer, that's totally on me.
Will wait for Lans's rebalance and then we could do that.
But it wouldn't really achieve anything, it's just psychological, because whether you get 20k from voting and a piece of dirt is 20k, or whether you get 2k from voting and a piece of dirt is 2k, it's the same thing.


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George

Okay I can't really think of me out of SFT ! This is the most important server I have ever joined. This is a quick proof of what i mean: (I thank my brother{Thanos} for this)

https://gyazo.com/c9529299484334a36e9858fb7e753546

https://gyazo.com/00cf0a668833628e8d2b9a3285003431
Hey! Sorry but you don't have permission to view that!

Cireshie

Cireshie4Chicken2.0

tree43

tbh I was against this at first but now maybe I'll come back on and play how I used to play when I wasn't rich in the 2012-2013 era where I just gathered and ran a shop. This will probably bring me back for a little bit so good job! I'm very excited :)

Prime54

will stuff in your inventory transfer over

stormshooter


ohWalrus


[/quote] Towelie
Then you should consider SFT as dead for you as of now. Because it will happen. And It's not the first time that happens either. Every minecraft server out there does a full reset at a certain point in their lifespan. It's needed to give people a sense of having something to do, it's needed for cleansing the consequences of some dupes / exploits and it's needed to maintain the server alive.

[/quote]  FrostyWalrus when u say cleansing consequences does that mean all banned players will be unbanned?
Survival Tycoon and Benefactor
Creative and Loot Architect


Fractalion

Quote from: Towelie on Jul 10, 2018, 08:07 AM
Quote from: Fractalion on Jul 10, 2018, 02:13 AM
Quote from: Towelie on Jul 09, 2018, 07:44 AM
Quote from: Fractalion on Jul 08, 2018, 07:40 PMThis is exciting, I've been waiting for this for a while!

A few questions, though:
1. You said some plugins are being removed. Could you give some examples? I assume some of the donation related ones that only one or two people actually purchased would be included here?
2. Since this will essentially reset the economy, will you be reducing the number of ways that money enters into the economy? For example, will the rewards from voting be reduced now that the economy doesn't necessarily require such inflated numbers?
3. In the same vein as #2, since this will reset the economy, will villager trading be enabled now? This would be a great opportunity to balance and enable that, probably the only chance you'll get.
4. Totally unrelated to the topic at hand, but which admin is currently in charge of Patreon coupon distribution? Easier to just ask here than to ask around xd
1. Just run of the mill un-used plugins that 1-2 people purchased, and then i'd reimburse those people in premium shop credit
2. No. Voting is important. The reason the economy was THAT fucked, was because a handful of people found ways to dupe items, and proceeded to dupe thousands of diamond stacks and whatnot.
3. Villager trading will not be enabled. It's still insanely broken and you can exploit the economy that way. Villager trading is not compatible with having an economy.
4. TheStarNomad

To be clear, what I mean is not to make voting less viable as a way of earning money, but rather to just make all the number smaller. Like, make diamonds 1/10 their current cost, make votes give 1/10 of what they currently do, make events give 1/10 of what they currently do, etc. At the moment, earning a million emp isn't really hard. You can do it pretty easily if you really want to.

By reducing slashing the cost of literally everything, you'd make the Emp seem like it's worth more, even if you technically haven't rebalanced anything at all.

I just think it'd be cool to see earning a million EmpBucks be a thing that takes effort again, rather than a thing that can be done rather trivially by mining for a little while.

I admit I could have phrased my question in a way that made what I was talking about a bit clearer, that's totally on me.
Will wait for Lans's rebalance and then we could do that.
But it wouldn't really achieve anything, it's just psychological, because whether you get 20k from voting and a piece of dirt is 20k, or whether you get 2k from voting and a piece of dirt is 2k, it's the same thing.

I agree it wouldn't really do anything, but I feel that with the advent of enchantments, beacons, potions, and everything else that has made amassing wealth easier, the value of emp has changed drastically.

The original emporium prices were set in an era before any of those things existed, when the absolute fastest you could mine an obsidian was at a rate of 4 per minute, for example. Diamonds were so much more of a grind to get back then as well, given that the ore veins were the same size, but neither efficiency nor fortune existed back then.

I figure since these "new" gameplay mechanics have drastically changed the value of basically everything, now would be a good time to adjust the prices so that they no longer feel as inflated as they currently do. Sure, it could always be done later, (and could have been done earlier, but then you would need to update every single player's Emp balance to reflect the change as well, as well as making sure every autoshop owner is aware of the upcoming change, etc.) but I feel like this is realistically the only time this can be done, which is why I bring it up now.

I just think it would be nice if the numbers weren't so crazy-overinflated. If it doesn't happen I won't be sad, because I know it would take a bit of effort, but I'd certainly be happy if it were done.