Regarding nudes

[Towelie]

@Towelie , besides sending nudes, what are the punishments for asking and spreading them? I feel like a good portion of the blame falls on their shoulders as well

If someone asked you to jump off a bridge, would you? (I don't mean this as an insult I'm just trying to point out that in my opinion the most blame is had by the person actually doing the deed)
As for those that spread them, obviously a ban and notifying the family members as well.

[American_Walrus]

@Towelie , besides sending nudes, what are the punishments for asking and spreading them? I feel like a good portion of the blame falls on their shoulders as well

If someone asked you to jump off a bridge, would you? (I don't mean this as an insult I'm just trying to point out that in my opinion the most blame is had by the person actually doing the deed)
As for those that spread them, obviously a ban and notifying the family members as well.

No, but I'd be pretty mad that someone asked me to jump off a bridge. If you're going to punish for sending nudes, the person who influenced/asked them to send nudes should at least get their parents notified (In my opinion). 80% of the blame falls on the sender, but you can't ignore the fact that they asked for them to do an illegal act. Again, most of the blame falls on the sender, as they are associating with someone who would ask, but I don't see that as fair. But then again, you have made your decision and I respect that.

[td998]

I definitely remember there being talk of contacting the authorities, but it seems that's no longer the case which is a lot more reasonable. I definitely believe that kids should be aware of the dangers of sending but if they're aware and they decide to do it anyway then it's their decision. I don't really see how it's any of SFT's business. Sure, they should be told not to bring it into the community and be warned- but banning them because they did something that many kids do? I can't get on board with that. I understand that a teenager COULD go to jail or be put on the sex offender registry list but the number of cases of that pales in comparison to the number of those who are never prosecuted. Usually, those types of things occur in very conservative and/or religious environments, not that it matters.

Looking at the bigger picture, it's really not a big deal. Kids should know that once they send it out there that there's a chance it could be saved and then distributed; but if they're aware of the risks and decide to do it anyway then that's up to them, the recipient and their family. This gaming community has no right to interfere with that. Just because people on the server have heard that so and so sent pictures to so so doesn't warrant a ban. They're here to play a game and have fun and if they meet someone who they want to get on that level with that's not SFT's business. Kids will be kids and just because they met on this platform doesn't mean it can be placed to blame. I understand you want to protect SFT's reputation but if you're getting too involved with things kids do outside of the SFT realm I think that THAT warrants tarnishing. Unless the pictures were sent via forums or ingame or they ended up there somehow then SFT has no right to punish those involved. You do not control skype, or snapchat, or texts and have no right to ban them for things they do there. You could if you so desired but I really can't respect that. That's way too controlling. I can respect not wanting this kind of thing on the server, but invading privacy like that is too much. It's an illegal act but so are drugs, and there are plenty of people on SFT who drink underage/get high and it's not SFT's business to punish them for that as they are not law enforcement so how is this any different? Perma banning someone for reason "sending nudes" is honestly laughable. When I read the post I laughed about it with my boyfriend because the idea was so ridiculous to me, not to mention the amount of people that were in agreement. I was honestly appalled. Kids will be kids and you can't change that just because you want to throw out bans.

[Mk4]

Theres a whole other situation behind this post that you don't, and won't ever understand as I'm not allowed to discuss it. Just trust that the actions that Towelie does of any of these situations is extremely justified. @td998

[td998]

Theres a whole other situation behind this post that you don't, and won't ever understand as I'm not allowed to discuss it. Just trust that the actions that Towelie does of any of these situations is extremely justified. @td998

Invading the privacy of those were are not involved in THAT incident by trying to control what they do outside SFT's platform is not and will never be justified

[Mk4]

As I said, there's more to this then you think.

[td998]

It really doesn't matter. There's a line that shouldn't be crossed no matter the circumstance. Unless someone is trying to like literally murder another person, then there is no way that it's justified in my book.

[Mk4]

To be extremely honest, if you knew the actual reasoning for this post you'd probably change your mind. But I'm not going to sit and argue with you, and you're wasting your time arguing this point. What Tow's said is final and I doubt anything changing that.

[Chocobo123456]

Honestly this was needed very much as people can  be stupid enough to do it. Now im not calling out people who are im just saying that someone can go out and do something stupid because of not enough sleep or they could be drunk. Imo this needs to stop ASAP #DontSendPics

[Towelie]

@Towelie , besides sending nudes, what are the punishments for asking and spreading them? I feel like a good portion of the blame falls on their shoulders as well

If someone asked you to jump off a bridge, would you? (I don't mean this as an insult I'm just trying to point out that in my opinion the most blame is had by the person actually doing the deed)
As for those that spread them, obviously a ban and notifying the family members as well.

No, but I'd be pretty mad that someone asked me to jump off a bridge. If you're going to punish for sending nudes, the person who influenced/asked them to send nudes should at least get their parents notified (In my opinion). 80% of the blame falls on the sender, but you can't ignore the fact that they asked for them to do an illegal act. Again, most of the blame falls on the sender, as they are associating with someone who would ask, but I don't see that as fair. But then again, you have made your decision and I respect that.

I'm simply trying to avoid drama and framing. This could get someone in real life trouble just because someone wanted to frame them and make it look like they requested nudes.
It's much more simple to enforce just sending of nudes.

[Nubbun]

@Towelie , besides sending nudes, what are the punishments for asking and spreading them? I feel like a good portion of the blame falls on their shoulders as well

If someone asked you to jump off a bridge, would you? (I don't mean this as an insult I'm just trying to point out that in my opinion the most blame is had by the person actually doing the deed)
As for those that spread them, obviously a ban and notifying the family members as well.

No, but I'd be pretty mad that someone asked me to jump off a bridge. If you're going to punish for sending nudes, the person who influenced/asked them to send nudes should at least get their parents notified (In my opinion). 80% of the blame falls on the sender, but you can't ignore the fact that they asked for them to do an illegal act. Again, most of the blame falls on the sender, as they are associating with someone who would ask, but I don't see that as fair. But then again, you have made your decision and I respect that.

I'm simply trying to avoid drama and framing. This could get someone in real life trouble just because someone wanted to frame them and make it look like they requested nudes.
It's much more simple to enforce just sending of nudes.

But couldn't that be a new problem? Like baiting to send nudes and then right after report em
Doubt people would do that but just kinda agreeing with its also bad to request it :l

[Towelie]

Theres a whole other situation behind this post that you don't, and won't ever understand as I'm not allowed to discuss it. Just trust that the actions that Towelie does of any of these situations is extremely justified. @td998

Invading the privacy of those were are not involved in THAT incident by trying to control what they do outside SFT's platform is not and will never be justified

How am I invading anyone's privacy?
If it becomes my knowledge, I will act. Simple as that. If you think I'm gonna start hacking people's skypes to check for illegal activities, I invite you to re-read all the posts in this topic.
When it becomes public knowledge, it's clearly not a matter of privacy any more

[Dpa1991]

They're here to play a game and have fun and if they meet someone who they want to get on that level with that's not SFT's business. Kids will be kids and just because they met on this platform doesn't mean it can be placed to blame. I understand you want to protect SFT's reputation but if you're getting too involved with things kids do outside of the SFT realm I think that THAT warrants tarnishing. Unless the pictures were sent via forums or ingame or they ended up there somehow then SFT has no right to punish those involved. You do not control skype, or snapchat, or texts and have no right to ban them for things they do there.

First off, kids do not understand the risks of what they are doing. This isn't something a kid can comprehend. Regardless if the kid decides they do understand, that's not how the law works. Is it our responsibility to ensure the kids on our server are safe outside of our server? No, not at all. But you can guarantee we're going to try and keep our community a safe-place for kids of all ages.

Second off, if I want to make a rule that requires everyone to post a picture of them picking their nose or get banned - I can. Why you may ask? Because this is my gaming community playing here is not a right, it's a privilege. I can ban who ever I want for what ever reason I want and just like that, I can make whatever rules I want. It's the trust you guys have in us to know we won't abuse that.

This rule is 100% required because of the amount of this leaking into our community and caused drama. I think you said it best right here:

They're here to play a game and have fun

That's what SFT is. We aren't here for kids to use the site as a dating site. (Yes, I met my fiancee who I now live with on SFT - but we're adults. We arent kids)

[td998]

If they do something outside of SFT and then someone decides to tell you about it is not your responsibility to take action as it doesn't involve SFT at all. You're encouraging people to report this kind of thing and share skype logs which is an invasion of privacy whether you're doing the invading or not you're still encouraging it. In fact, leaks occur because someone doesn't keep it to themselves. It's not your responsibility to fight the exchange of nudes. Like I've said several times if it gets to the point where it's negatively impacting SFT and/or its players, then fine. But if a few kids want to send pictures to each other it's not your business.

Saying you can't send nudes or you'll be banned is an attempt to control what players do outside of the SFT realm and that's not right in my opinion. Same thing as saying "if I hear you guys have been eating macaroni you'll be banned because I don't like it." You're trying to control what people do when they're not in SFT's environment. Whether it's illegal or not that's not really your call. Obviously you can do whatever you want but you can't expect people to be okay with the fact that you're trying to say what they can and can't do outside of the server or they'll be banned. As I've said multiple times by now, I understand if it's flooding the server but as far as two kids sending nudes to each other it's seriously not your call. No matter how irresponsible it is or what the consequences could be. I know it's a stretch but it would be like banning someone because they drove recklessly. Irresponsible, illegal, and could have consequences, if you're using that as your argument.

Bottom line is, to me, it isn't right to say what people can/can't do outside of the server and if they break that rule they'll be banned. Again, if it situation finds itself literally right on SFT's doorstep and it's everywhere, I understand. Obviously I have no control over the situation but that's just what I honestly think.

[Dpa1991]

If they do something outside of SFT and then someone decides to tell you about it is not your responsibility to take action as it doesn't involve SFT at all. You're encouraging people to report this kind of thing and share skype logs which is an invasion of privacy whether you're doing the invading or not you're still encouraging it. In fact, leaks occur because someone doesn't keep it to themselves. It's not your responsibility to fight the exchange of nudes. Like I've said several times if it gets to the point where it's negatively impacting SFT and/or its players, then fine. But if a few kids want to send pictures to each other it's not your business.

Saying you can't send nudes or you'll be banned is an attempt to control what players do outside of the SFT realm and that's not right in my opinion. Same thing as saying "if I hear you guys have been eating macaroni you'll be banned because I don't like it." You're trying to control what people do when they're not in SFT's environment. Whether it's illegal or not that's not really your call. Obviously you can do whatever you want but you can't expect people to be okay with the fact that you're trying to say what they can and can't do outside of the server or they'll be banned. As I've said multiple times by now, I understand if it's flooding the server but as far as two kids sending nudes to each other it's seriously not your call. No matter how irresponsible it is or what the consequences could be. I know it's a stretch but it would be like banning someone because they drove recklessly. Irresponsible, illegal, and could have consequences, if you're using that as your argument.

Bottom line is, to me, it isn't right to say what people can/can't do outside of the server and if they break that rule they'll be banned. Again, if it situation finds itself literally right on SFT's doorstep and it's everywhere, I understand. Obviously I have no control over the situation but that's just what I honestly think.

You realize you're arguing the fact kids should be allowed to distribute child pornagraphy right? This extends way beyond some stupid community rules. It's the law, me and Towelie could easily end up in jail if we allow this to go on.

Ultimately, you're allowed to dislike the rules. But in this case, you're the one in the wrong.

[xQuicScopex]

If they do something outside of SFT and then someone decides to tell you about it is not your responsibility to take action as it doesn't involve SFT at all. You're encouraging people to report this kind of thing and share skype logs which is an invasion of privacy whether you're doing the invading or not you're still encouraging it. In fact, leaks occur because someone doesn't keep it to themselves. It's not your responsibility to fight the exchange of nudes. Like I've said several times if it gets to the point where it's negatively impacting SFT and/or its players, then fine. But if a few kids want to send pictures to each other it's not your business.

Saying you can't send nudes or you'll be banned is an attempt to control what players do outside of the SFT realm and that's not right in my opinion. Same thing as saying "if I hear you guys have been eating macaroni you'll be banned because I don't like it." You're trying to control what people do when they're not in SFT's environment. Whether it's illegal or not that's not really your call. Obviously you can do whatever you want but you can't expect people to be okay with the fact that you're trying to say what they can and can't do outside of the server or they'll be banned. As I've said multiple times by now, I understand if it's flooding the server but as far as two kids sending nudes to each other it's seriously not your call. No matter how irresponsible it is or what the consequences could be. I know it's a stretch but it would be like banning someone because they drove recklessly. Irresponsible, illegal, and could have consequences, if you're using that as your argument.

Bottom line is, to me, it isn't right to say what people can/can't do outside of the server and if they break that rule they'll be banned. Again, if it situation finds itself literally right on SFT's doorstep and it's everywhere, I understand. Obviously I have no control over the situation but that's just what I honestly think.

its not entirely your place to decide what is right and wrong to do in THEIR community. and dpa is right, this can easily put him, tow, fear, saywhat and any other owner in jail if they allow this to happen w/o consequences. its not about right and wrong its about protecting the community and themselves

[Fractalion]

If they do something outside of SFT and then someone decides to tell you about it is not your responsibility to take action as it doesn't involve SFT at all. You're encouraging people to report this kind of thing and share skype logs which is an invasion of privacy whether you're doing the invading or not you're still encouraging it. In fact, leaks occur because someone doesn't keep it to themselves. It's not your responsibility to fight the exchange of nudes. Like I've said several times if it gets to the point where it's negatively impacting SFT and/or its players, then fine. But if a few kids want to send pictures to each other it's not your business.

Saying you can't send nudes or you'll be banned is an attempt to control what players do outside of the SFT realm and that's not right in my opinion. Same thing as saying "if I hear you guys have been eating macaroni you'll be banned because I don't like it." You're trying to control what people do when they're not in SFT's environment. Whether it's illegal or not that's not really your call. Obviously you can do whatever you want but you can't expect people to be okay with the fact that you're trying to say what they can and can't do outside of the server or they'll be banned. As I've said multiple times by now, I understand if it's flooding the server but as far as two kids sending nudes to each other it's seriously not your call. No matter how irresponsible it is or what the consequences could be. I know it's a stretch but it would be like banning someone because they drove recklessly. Irresponsible, illegal, and could have consequences, if you're using that as your argument.

Bottom line is, to me, it isn't right to say what people can/can't do outside of the server and if they break that rule they'll be banned. Again, if it situation finds itself literally right on SFT's doorstep and it's everywhere, I understand. Obviously I have no control over the situation but that's just what I honestly think.

Here's the thing. If these things actually remained private it wouldn't matter as much, because there wouldn't be anyone getting hurt, and the owners wouldn't have to get involved with these situations. The world isn't a magical wonderland of happiness where nothing bad ever happens, though. This stuff becomes public far too often, to the extent where we now have this rule.

Look at it this way: If a school found out that nudes were being shared among their students at the rate SFT is currently seeing, would the school ignore this issue, or would they create a new, very strict policy? They'd either create that policy or risk legal action taken against them. What about a summer camp? Same thing. Now apply that same logic to this community. If an issue comes to the attention of the owners, they need to take action. Sometimes they'll be able to contact the parents, though I imagine in most cases they won't be able to (unless the person in question was sharing their personal details like crazy), so beyond attempting to contact the parents banning the player is the best option. It keeps the people that are causing these issues out.

In the end, it isn't a matter of trying to control what people do outside of the community. It's a matter of not allowing people to use the community to engage in illegal activity. Is this activity happening via the forum's messaging system? In most cases, probably not. Either way, the community is being used as a place to meet people to engage in this activity though, and therein lies the problem. Think of it another way, if the community was being used by drug dealers to connect with their clientele and the owners chose to ignore it, would that be a legal issue for the community? Yes. In fact, I'm pretty sure there have been several websites that have been shut down and their operators imprisoned for that reason. This situation is no different, and in some cases one might even argue that this case is more severe.

[BattleAxium]

I don't know why this is even an argument? You send/receive nudes within this community, then expect some consequences. It would be the same deal if you decide to distribute illegal drugs through this community. If it's illegal or it's legality is questionable then it really has no place in this community. Plain and simple. If you want to conduct in illegal activities then do it at your own risk, not putting SFT at risk.

[Aymaneto]

Can we please have this locked before it turns into an argument?

[Lucy_23x]

Can we please have this locked before it turns into an argument?

Unless it gets interesting.

[td998]

You realize you're arguing the fact kids should be allowed to distribute child pornagraphy right? This extends way beyond some stupid community rules. It's the law, me and Towelie could easily end up in jail if we allow this to go on.

Ultimately, you're allowed to dislike the rules. But in this case, you're the one in the wrong.

Um, no that's not what I'm doing. I'm saying it's not your job to say what they can or can't do outside of the SFT. You can tell them it's illegal or you don't approve but you have no control over what they do once they leave the server's range, which most definitely does not extend to skype or snapchat or other social medias where pictures could be exchanged. Unless it comes into contact with SFT directly then there's no control over what they do. And of course I'm extremely against ACTUAL child pornography (and don't argue that nudes ARE actual child pornography because you know what I mean) like the kind you find on the deep web and I believe that anyone involved with owning, distributing, etc. of actual porn videos/movies with children (especially against their will) should be charged and thrown in prison. Do I think you should be arrested for sending a topless picture or dick pic? No. I think that's stupid. I know a lot of long distance couples where their only way to reach that level of intimacy with each other is through sexting and I see nothing wrong with it, despite the fact that the law defines pictures of minors as child pornography. I know you're just trying to enforce that law and even if I find it to be a stupid one that it still is in fact a law, but I'm just saying that there's no reason to ban these kids for what they do outside of SFT.

its not entirely your place to decide what is right and wrong to do in THEIR community. and dpa is right, this can easily put him, tow, fear, saywhat and any other owner in jail if they allow this to happen w/o consequences. its not about right and wrong its about protecting the community and themselves

Actually, they're not deciding what's right and wrong in THEIR community once it branches out to personal relations and has nothing really to do with SFT anymore. Unless they're sending the pictures directly through the community's channels or like frac said using SFT strictly to do it then it isn't under their jurisdiction and they can't get into trouble for anything that happens outside of their realm. Just because people hear about the incident or the people involved met and play on the server doesn't mean the server is liable for any kind of backlash that may possibly occur.

Here's the thing. If these things actually remained private it wouldn't matter as much, because there wouldn't be anyone getting hurt, and the owners wouldn't have to get involved with these situations. The world isn't a magical wonderland of happiness where nothing bad ever happens, though. This stuff becomes public far too often, to the extent where we now have this rule.

Look at it this way: If a school found out that nudes were being shared among their students at the rate SFT is currently seeing, would the school ignore this issue, or would they create a new, very strict policy? They'd either create that policy or risk legal action taken against them. What about a summer camp? Same thing. Now apply that same logic to this community. If an issue comes to the attention of the owners, they need to take action. Sometimes they'll be able to contact the parents, though I imagine in most cases they won't be able to (unless the person in question was sharing their personal details like crazy), so beyond attempting to contact the parents banning the player is the best option. It keeps the people that are causing these issues out.

In the end, it isn't a matter of trying to control what people do outside of the community. It's a matter of not allowing people to use the community to engage in illegal activity. Is this activity happening via the forum's messaging system? In most cases, probably not. Either way, the community is being used as a place to meet people to engage in this activity though, and therein lies the problem. Think of it another way, if the community was being used by drug dealers to connect with their clientele and the owners chose to ignore it, would that be a legal issue for the community? Yes. In fact, I'm pretty sure there have been several websites that have been shut down and their operators imprisoned for that reason. This situation is no different, and in some cases one might even argue that this case is more severe.

I understand and agree to some degree.

I agree with your first point, but I don't think that people are using the community to engage in illegal activity. If they're using the server just to send nudes etc. then yes, I completely agree. However, I doubt that's how it is in every case. I think that mostly it's just kids wanting to feel better about themselves, get attention, or maybe just be more intimate with someone that they care about and know on SFT. Is sending nudes the best possible choice? No probably not but then again binge watching netflix and eating popcorn for a whole week probably isn't the best decision either and I definitely know there are a few of you who are guilty of that.

So, in case I haven't made this exact statement yet, I agree that if SFT is being used strictly for the reason of sending nudes then it is up to the server to decide if they want to act. However, if people just happened to meet on SFT and want to get to that level with eachother, whether or not it gets out, I don't think that warrants a ban. They made a mistake or maybe they were okay with their decision, but unless SFT is now Super Fun Tinder then I say let them do what they want even if it's a mistake. Educating them of the negative impact it could have would probably be a better way of preventing it, and if they still decide to do it and it backfires then that's their issue (unless, like I said, it was directly involved with SFT's channels or they were using SFT to do it bla bla bla).

[td998]

I don't know why this is even an argument? You send/receive nudes within this community, then expect some consequences. It would be the same deal if you decide to distribute illegal drugs through this community. If it's illegal or it's legality is questionable then it really has no place in this community. Plain and simple. If you want to conduct in illegal activities then do it at your own risk, not putting SFT at risk.

I agree with this- all that I'm saying is that if it's outside of SFT then it's no one's business but the sender and recipient.

[American_Walrus]

Honesty, @td998 you're on your own here. Only 1 or 2 people have backed you up, and if there are more, they are too afraid to say anything. Everyone believes that they are right, and in this scenario, you are talking to a lot of people who believe something other than what you do. Few, if any, people are going to change their opinion on this. I recommend picking your battles because you're not going to win this one.

Locking this is probably the best way to go.

I don't know why this is even an argument? You send/receive nudes within this community, then expect some consequences. It would be the same deal if you decide to distribute illegal drugs through this community. If it's illegal or it's legality is questionable then it really has no place in this community. Plain and simple. If you want to conduct in illegal activities then do it at your own risk, not putting SFT at risk.

agreed

[xQuicScopex]

if you have someone in a group of people constantly asking for/sending this type of content would you really allow them to stick around and cause a bigger problem? no, you would want them out to protect others and that is EXACTLY what tow is saying if you would look at it more with common sense instead of trying to say "its their business" its become PUBLIC and that doesn't exactly look good here so again that's why tow has made this post but I also think it needs to be locked before this gets out of hand

[Dpa1991]

I don't know why this is even an argument? You send/receive nudes within this community, then expect some consequences. It would be the same deal if you decide to distribute illegal drugs through this community. If it's illegal or it's legality is questionable then it really has no place in this community. Plain and simple. If you want to conduct in illegal activities then do it at your own risk, not putting SFT at risk.

I agree with this- all that I'm saying is that if it's outside of SFT then it's no one's business but the sender and recipient.

If they're adults, yeah. But we're discussing kids here.