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[Survival] Economy Reset Poll

Started by Towelie, Jan 29, 2017, 05:14 PM

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0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Should we reset the economy (set everyone's balance to 0?)

Yes
39 (33.6%)
No
59 (50.9%)
No, but you should reduce everyone's balances by 50% or higher
18 (15.5%)

Total Members Voted: 86

Voting closed: Feb 03, 2017, 05:14 PM

Towelie

We are currently discussing in the manager team and would like to do the following:
- Nerf both the buy and sell prices for things made easier to obtain by SFTMMO/Slimefun (diamonds, etc)
- Re-make our emp prices inspired by the most popular autoshop - mallusa (that doesn't mean we'll just use their prices but we'll use them for inspiration when tuning our prices)


Follow me on Instagram (i post cool stuff) https://www.instagram.com/toweliewtf/
Psst, got a Nintendo Switch? Add me -> SW-6574-1607-3796

Stoovs

There's no point in resetting an economy without resetting the whole of the server. Erasing money is nothing if the richest will still have all of their items. The only way to get the economy that YOU want is to have a full reset. That being said, lots of people have made arguments on both sides of the spectrum so the best thing to do is to judge them equally, weigh out the options, and pick the end solution.

If you want to try to balance the current economy then take these suggestions into account:

  • Remove the Emporium OR remove the ability to sell to the Emporium
This will stop bringing cash into the economy and will remove cash from it, especially if Emporium prices are adjusted accordingly where people will actually buy from it
  • Create a variable tax rate (Lower for poor players, higher for richer)
The poor only have a few dollars to spend and they're going to want to keep as much of it as they can. The only problem that would occur here is people forcing themselves into lower tax brackets so they don't have the higher tax.
  • A market with variable prices based on supply and demand
Could be useful, could be awful. It could easily kill the Emporium and autoshops but there is no guarantee either way. It'd be a completely different economic system then what it currently in place. This could however, still be abused by players with lots of money and materials. They could easily manipulate the market, especially on a small server such as SFT.
  • Increasing overall tax (closer to real world economies) to 15-20%
Would help drain money from the economy (which is clearly needed). Very simple solution, albeit, won't get the result you want as quickly, or maybe even at all.
"There are some that only employ words for the purpose of disguising their thoughts" -Voltaire

George

Just it is not fair for people who worked 2 years for their money like cty who has 300million and it took him a life to create them
Hey! Sorry but you don't have permission to view that!

King_Craftius

Personally I believe that a complete economy reset may not be the best cause of action, but here are some steps I propose that may help sort out the situation:
 :diamond: 1/3 or 1/2 deduction in everyone's EMP balance
 :diamond: Taxes to be moved to between 20-25%
 :diamond: Maximum amount on Lottery wins (Normally richer players will buy more tickets and thus win, making an economic divide, the richer players richer and the poorer players poorer.
 :diamond: The Plugin BattleAxium spoke about earlier about having a Dynamic Market seemed like a great idea and would greatly benefit the server
 :diamond: More money is exchanged between players and players or players and autoshops than through the server's EMP, so autoshop owners will keep getting richer creating an economic divide, but this occurs due to it being much easier, hassle free and you can do this whenever. I propose that maybe a Server run Autoshop is set up (Run by Manager+ or Admin+) somehwhere in spawn that will attract players with EMP prices (so a little expensive) but you would pay this due to the ease of it. Then have the EMP open here and there but the prices would be cheaper than the Server autoshop.
 :diamond: An idea to maybe reduce EMP would be by using EMP to buy cosmetic items, it wouldn't give the player an advantage but would consume EMP (maybe items like from the /buy)

Hope This helps  :heart: 

winston_b

Just wondering, but do we know roughly how much emp is in the entire community (or just active players)?
(Of course it's a lot of EmpBucks)
Specialist
January 1, 2016 - June 29, 2017

Proud ex-owner of /warp mallusa & /warp wxp

Towelie

We decided to not reset anything and just fix the prices see where that brings us


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maxwolf28

Quote from: Stoovs on Jan 30, 2017, 09:18 AM
  • Create a variable tax rate (Lower for poor players, higher for richer)
The poor only have a few dollars to spend and they're going to want to keep as much of it as they can. The only problem that would occur here is people forcing themselves into lower tax brackets so they don't have the higher tax.


The only thing I have a 100% full objection to is something like this (I've seen it a few times now). Im being completely honest here and going to say something like this is bull shit. Why do people who work very hard for their money have to give more of it away? and people who don't work for money don't have to give any? (disclaimer: I'm working off of 2 extremes, I'm not saying all poor people don't work hard for money and I'm not saying all rich people work for their money. but most times it is like this) if you have *exaggerated* someone working 20h a day and making 40mil or someone who works 1h a day and makes 100k, why would the one who works more have to pay more, just because they have more money? thats just not fair in my opinion.

Lou671998

With regards to the variable tax rate, wouldn't smart rich players just stockpile wealthy items, continue being rich and evade the majority of the tax anyway? Since they have large numbers of assets but low physical monetary value.
I used to be lou, I have ascended.

maxwolf28

Quote from: Consum on Jan 30, 2017, 07:32 PMWith regards to the variable tax rate, wouldn't smart rich players just stockpile wealthy items, continue being rich and evade the majority of the tax anyway? Since they have large numbers of assets but low physical monetary value.
Yea thats also a thing.

NiteHawk110

I am taking economics right now in school, the problems the SFT is going through are very similar to those of the great depression. Not necessarily the whole stock market thing but the unequal distribution of wealth on the server, Also the fact that all markets are controlled by 2 or 3 groups of people. This gives the more wealthy players the upper hand in every way, charging whatever they want for items in the game, in end creating inflation (Money losing value). There are a few ways to eliminate inflation.

1. Expansionary Policy: Consists of increased federal spending (server spending in-game money to help players) and lower taxes. This includes subsidies and programs for the poor, Such as; Providing paid jobs and tax relief. (Not for the rich though, in our case increasing taxes on the rich).

2. Creating a system which anyone can start a store, increasing competition, driving prices down. To achieve that auto shop perms would need to be public. If this is the case more money will be moved around and distributed to the less fortunate. To even further prevent inflation taxes could be increased.

I really hope that the points I have made will be considered by the SFT staff! Thanks for reading guys!

Stancrazy

Quote from: NiteHawk110 on Jan 30, 2017, 09:44 PM2. Creating a system which anyone can start a store, increasing competition, driving prices down. To achieve that auto shop perms would need to be public. If this is the case more money will be moved around and distributed to the less fortunate. To even further prevent inflation taxes could be increased.

Well, anyone can honestly open a shop, with or without autoshop permissions. Brick & mortar shops (player run shops), were quite popular a few years back, however, there are rarely any now. Mostly due to the effort required and lack of customers I suppose due to the time you have to dedicate to it.

Xerxers1

What about a flat tax that happens every couple of days/weeks down to a certain value. So people who have more than 50,000emp are taxed .01 of their total value every week/whatever. It gives a reason to continue growing your wealth because if you don't you lose money over time back to 50k. People at the top pay a little more .01 of 100mil is more than .01 of 100k, and it helps to lower the entire economic value while not hurting anyone in particular (especially those who play BECAUSE they have a lot of money right now).

Bug

I don't think we should reset, as some players (Myself Included) don't earn money quite as fast, and put a lot of our money into building materials. I think the problems include new players not having good access to money, while older players have too much.

There are a lot of options to fix this, one of which is finding a way to encourage rich players to spend their money (potentially with exclusive items for giving up money or spending it on players with small accounts).
We also need to reduce the money being added to the economy significantly. That doesn't mean increasing prices at EMP, but dropping EMP sell prices would encourage players to sell to each other and lower the money being added. It also means events cannot be adding huge amounts of money to the economy.
We could have Pay In events or Sponsored events, where large prizes come from players rather than staff, to distribute some existing money.
We could also have "Public Works Funding" where we get builders together, and source blocks and funds from major players on the servers (Such as auto-shop owners) and create cool builds and other attractions.
While Autoshops are convenient, I think we should implement a tax on autoshop owners, as payment for the convenience, and to encourage player shops to be used more.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a player having a large amount of money, except that they may not be able to spend it as fast as they make it on anything.
-If life gives you lemons, make grape juice. Then sit back, and let the world wonder how you did it.

Darren64_NY

Is the tax taken away from us even used for anything? I mentioned this before where tax money should go to eventhosts as prizes they give out.

Katherine

Quote from: Darren64_NY on Jan 31, 2017, 01:24 PMIs the tax taken away from us even used for anything? I mentioned this before where tax money should go to eventhosts as prizes they give out.
If the point is to drain money out of the economy, then it doesn't go anywhere. Giving it to the event hosts would just defeat the purpose, as the money outflows through the tax methods would just be inflowed back into the economy.

Lou671998

Quote from: Katherine on Jan 31, 2017, 01:37 PM
Quote from: Darren64_NY on Jan 31, 2017, 01:24 PMIs the tax taken away from us even used for anything? I mentioned this before where tax money should go to eventhosts as prizes they give out.
If the point is to drain money out of the economy, then it doesn't go anywhere. Giving it to the event hosts would just defeat the purpose, as the money outflows through the tax methods would just be inflowed back into the economy.

I think his point was that the tax could be used for events INSTEAD of spawned money. That actually sounds like a pretty good idea. There's less spawned money going into the economy. Yes there's less coming out, but we could fix that with some of the other suggestions in this thread.
I used to be lou, I have ascended.

maxwolf28

Quote from: Bug on Jan 31, 2017, 05:54 AMWhile Autoshops are convenient, I think we should implement a tax on autoshop owners, as payment for the convenience, and to encourage player shops to be used more.

Like the 20$~ irl or like 10mil in game that you have to or would have had to spend to get it.

lionblaze10

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

As long as there are player more determined to gain large amounts of EMP or liquid assets the economy will always be "broken."

Let the players do as they please and leave it alone. Laissez-faire would apply perfectly in this scenario.
Honour: If you need it defined, you don't have it

cravend

Quote from: maxwolf28 on Jan 31, 2017, 06:14 PM
Quote from: Bug on Jan 31, 2017, 05:54 AMWhile Autoshops are convenient, I think we should implement a tax on autoshop owners, as payment for the convenience, and to encourage player shops to be used more.

Like the 20$~ irl or like 10mil in game that you have to or would have had to spend to get it.
isn't there already a 10% tax on autoshop transactions?
Thanks to Mewiebowie for the spectacular avatar!

Bug

Now that I'm a little more awake: The Major things we need to do to fix the economy are:

Less money introduced into the economy

More things to spend money on

Reasons for rich players to pay poor players

More things for rich players to do that don't seem like a waste of their time

If we can add things like this, we should start getting on track toward everyone having things to do, including rich players, which is what we want.
-If life gives you lemons, make grape juice. Then sit back, and let the world wonder how you did it.

Bug

Quote from: cravend on Feb 01, 2017, 01:51 AM
Quote from: maxwolf28 on Jan 31, 2017, 06:14 PM
Quote from: Bug on Jan 31, 2017, 05:54 AMWhile Autoshops are convenient, I think we should implement a tax on autoshop owners, as payment for the convenience, and to encourage player shops to be used more.

Like the 20$~ irl or like 10mil in game that you have to or would have had to spend to get it.
isn't there already a 10% tax on autoshop transactions?

The problem is that Autoshops are convenient, and that there is a tax on regular transactions anyway. Increasing the tax on autoshops would encourage players to use brick and mortar shops, as there would actually be a reason to go there instead of an autoshop. I also was slightly mistaken in my description of the tax, it should go both ways, however I think it should be the inverse of normal tax, and tax players who sell to autoshops, and tax autoshop owners when players buy from the shop, otherwise owners will always set their shops to buy only to avoid the tax, unless their only means of stocking is to buy from players.
-If life gives you lemons, make grape juice. Then sit back, and let the world wonder how you did it.

one227

Problem is what I can see on here is that people are mostly talking about how to get money from the rich people.

Is been barely disused how new players can get emp easier and be able to buy the items that SFT make it so hard to get due to the emp.

We need to focus on new players and how they can get emp to buy items like beacons and so on.

The rich ones will always get rich either abusing something at the emp or other dodgey ways.

Like if you change 1 price at the emp people will find away to abuse another item at the emp.

Just let them do what they do with emp and just focus on new players been able to gather emp a lot easier.

garow93

I think people offering these solutions as if they are gospel or somehow "easy solutions" in their mind need to realize that at this point, we are getting into real economics. And from what I've seen, there is no real world solution that has been proven to work for any of the economy issues that there are. Examples:
"There aren't any ways to make money!", "there aren't any jobs", "All the rich do is drain money from the economy for themselves and hoard it!" "the rich will still be rich if we raise the tax so we can raise it to remove money from the economy(real world would put this money into the government, on SFT the money would just be removed)."

All of these are issues that economists and politicians have been trying to figure out for literally thousands of years(since at least Rome, if not earlier.)

Where people and money are concerned, there will always be greed.

Having said these things, a complete and full reset, no matter how harsh, would put things back to a nice economy(for a little bit, until progression catches up and people are back where they are in a year.) Things that could be removed to make this "money creep" slower:

-SFTMMO needs a serious rework as far as the bonuses and abilities. I remember you having to nerf mcmmo mining because of the possible 4 diamonds from one ore.. Some of the things I've seen with sftmmo and the tools are extraordinarily more overpowered than 4 diamonds an ore, regardless of how much you nerf the selling price of diamonds(diamonds are essentially the currency of the game if we didn't have emp, so if the value of the diamond goes down, the value of the emp goes down.)

-Create a limit of what players can sell to the emp. Not based on the item, but based on an amount. Essentially, the emp, if it has money, will buy anything from any player(or rather what you guys currently buy with it.) However, if it spends all it's money(whatever number you set that too, be it 100k to start or 1m or whatever)it won't be able to buy anything until players buy from it like an actual shop would have to .

-Empower(not the best word to use) the community and more importantly those that have the money to create jobs or things for other players to do. There isn't a real way to do this in the way we would like in the quantity and quality that we would like, but some kind of system in place for this would be ideal.