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[Survival] Let's talk about Survival

Started by Towelie, Apr 14, 2021, 11:18 AM

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Towelie

Apr 14, 2021, 11:18 AM Last Edit: Apr 15, 2021, 05:01 PM by Towelie
For a while now, several people have been telling me that Survival should go back to its simpler times, and that we are way too complicated now, with too many plugins.
Now, I'm not one to rush into anything like that, so I think I found a nice way to start, without alienating half of the community.

You tell us what you mean by that, and exactly what you think should be done to survival (eg: Remove Slimefun), we can then make polls, see what the rest of the people think and do changes based on that.
But if the majority votes against such a change, we will not do it as we do not want to risk losing the remaining players.

NOTE: I ask you to understand that some times, even if there is popular support for a decision, we may veto that if we find it to be damaging to the server in any way

------
I kinda wrote the whole post focusing of the example of Slimefun but this post is not at all asking to remove Slimefun and other such plugins, I am merely asking you, the players, what do you want added/removed from survival and if someone says something concise enough we can start a poll based on that.
Sorry, my bad, should've been more clear.


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mjoll9

I'm pretty sure a decent chunk of remaining players, especially older ones, only stick around for the content plugins like pyrofishing/mining/slimefun. If those were to go I think you'll see a dip in players.

Towelie

Quote from: mjoll9 on Apr 14, 2021, 11:20 AMI'm pretty sure a decent chunk of remaining players, especially older ones, only stick around for the content plugins like pyrofishing/mining/slimefun. If those were to go I think you'll see a dip in players.
Then clearly we won't do that, but... Tell us what you think would help. Our playerbase kinda dipped a lot now and we need to be appealing to newer players too, so maybe give feedback from that perspective too?


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Palker

Quote from: mjoll9 on Apr 14, 2021, 11:20 AMI'm pretty sure a decent chunk of remaining players, especially older ones, only stick around for the content plugins like pyrofishing/mining/slimefun. If those were to go I think you'll see a dip in players.

This is definitely accurate, I always tend to come back every few months or so, and when I do, it's because of the plugins like pyrofishing, pyromining etc.
If these plugins would get removed, I probably wouldn't come back since there's not that much to do other than to play around with those plugins.

Palker

Apr 14, 2021, 11:27 AM #4 Last Edit: Apr 14, 2021, 11:33 AM by Palker
Quote from: Towelie on Apr 14, 2021, 11:23 AM
Quote from: mjoll9 on Apr 14, 2021, 11:20 AMI'm pretty sure a decent chunk of remaining players, especially older ones, only stick around for the content plugins like pyrofishing/mining/slimefun. If those were to go I think you'll see a dip in players.
Then clearly we won't do that, but... Tell us what you think would help. Our playerbase kinda dipped a lot now and we need to be appealing to newer players too, so maybe give feedback from that perspective too?
I'd suggest promoting these plugins(pyromining, pyrofishing, etc) and possibly try to make it easier for players to get into those plugins, since most of the players that stick around tend to have one of these plugins as their main activity that makes them wanna come on and play.

GRIMI_

Embrace potato farming culture  :potato:

Bruhmoment2023

im really thinking that removing any plugins will affect in a MAJOR Loss of players

Bruhmoment2023

but i could drag in a few 20 players i think NOT completley sure

George

From my prespective I dont really get involved with plugins and I am being slowly forced into using them. For example before hopper nerf all i needed was 8 cobblestone but now i need stacks upon stacks of iron ore chests full of gravel and it is getting very annoying that the response we get is use slimefun when I am clearly trying to play minecraft vanilla and not a modpack. Survival has literally turned into a custom modpack from the way I see it. Also things such as voting rewards giving mining items really isnt great. Okay I get it. A massive miner man made the new rewards which is probably what led to them having alot of mining related things. Survival is good at the moment. But I would prefer not to be forced and pushed towards using the plugins I dont really care about.
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MsDanteMoon

Whenever I play I really enjoy the fishing plugin and some of the slime fun items (really nice quality of life items like glow stone boots and things like that) but god I cannot stand the mining items.
Whenever I dig out a small patch of dirt for building my inventory gets filled with random junk I'll never use and I end up just throwing on /Ah for a couple dollars. It's really frustrating and I dread going to clear out land for building.

I rarely get into the other parts of slimefun other than the basics like glow stone boots since I really only ever get on to build so I can't comment too much on how they affect the server.
'I used to hate pineapple pizza but now that I know Dante likes it I fully support it'
Survival JMod 7/15/2017-8/9/2017
Survival Mod 8/9/2017-12/28/17
Survival Manager12/28/17-Whenever I stopped
Kiss me like Hilary duff

Chill2000

Quote from: George on Apr 14, 2021, 01:09 PMBut I would prefer not to be forced and pushed towards using the plugins I dont really care about.
I think the idea is more introduce people to plugins giving more options of stuff to do and complete, rather than forcing people to use plugins they dont want to play. It just gives more options for stuff to do (since survival is kinda limited in that respect)
Quote from: xavidram on Dec 22, 2013, 09:37 AMThe internet: where men are men, women are men, and children are FBI agents.

Kaninka

Well it depends on what people mean with simpler times..

We once had a complete Vanilla Minecraft server.. but once you have done the big milestones, people slowly stopped playing Vanilla and returned to Survival.
Any game that doesn't add new things slowly becomes stagnate and people lose their reason to play :)

Survival certainly got a lot of plugins, the most popular are most likely Slimefun, Pyrofishing and Pyromining.
Is it too many? Maybe, but if you start removing them, then the reason becomes too few things, it is after all hard to satisfy everyone.

A possible solution, would be that you could do something like /pyromining off or /pyrofishing off. So you could basically go mining/fishing and you just don't get the items from them.
They would still exist for the people that want them, but they could be turned off for the people that feels forced to use them :)
Unsure if it is even possible to make the plugins do that, but it is a compromise in a way :)  :zombie:

Towelie

Quote from: GRIMI_ on Apr 14, 2021, 11:42 AMEmbrace potato farming culture  :potato:
Not sure if meme or real, but please explain


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Trojan

Quote from: Kaninka on Apr 14, 2021, 03:10 PMWell it depends on what people mean with simpler times..

We once had a complete Vanilla Minecraft server.. but once you have done the big milestones, people slowly stopped playing Vanilla and returned to Survival.
Any game that doesn't add new things slowly becomes stagnate and people lose their reason to play :)

Survival certainly got a lot of plugins, the most popular are most likely Slimefun, Pyrofishing and Pyromining.
Is it too many? Maybe, but if you start removing them, then the reason becomes too few things, it is after all hard to satisfy everyone.

A possible solution, would be that you could do something like /pyromining off or /pyrofishing off. So you could basically go mining/fishing and you just don't get the items from them.
They would still exist for the people that want them, but they could be turned off for the people that feels forced to use them :)
Unsure if it is even possible to make the plugins do that, but it is a compromise in a way :)  :zombie:

This is a good idea, I like it in that you can turn off plugins you don't want to collect items for.

Also the idea of having stuff you can come back to is a good point. Adding plugins like pyrofishing, pyromining, and slimefun do add new stuff but to be fair it is supplementary-as in it makes it easier to play and make empbucks which in turn allow you to do more survival stuff (buy beacons, quartz, shulkers, build bases etc). But they don't really inherently add a lot except as a hobby. With the other additions to the game I think you have some other fun items (cars, cosmetics).

I think survival add-ons should stay for those reasons: experienced players depend/center around them, and most of them just add fun or stuff to do to keep playing.
The hardcore server you are adding, in my opinion, should probably remove plugins like slimefun, vehicles, and mcmmo-not just to make the game harder, but also more vanilla for people who want that.

SavageCoopDoge

If this server goes back to vanilla minecraft with no plugins, we would all have nothing to do and the server would eventually die, i think the plugins are a good thing

QT_runa

Quote from: Towelie on Apr 14, 2021, 11:18 AMFor a while now, several people have been telling me that Survival should go back to its simpler times, and that we are way too complicated now, with too many plugins.
Now, I'm not one to rush into anything like that, so I think I found a nice way to start, without alienating half of the community.

You tell us what you mean by that, and exactly what you think should be done to survival (eg: Remove Slimefun), we can then make polls, see what the rest of the people think and do changes based on that.
But if the majority votes against such a change, we will not do it as we do not want to risk losing the remaining players.

NOTE: I ask you to understand that some times, even if there is popular support for a decision, we may veto that if we find it to be damaging to the server in any way

yeah agreeing with grimi we should have more rewards or convient to incentive for potato farming culture

FishNChips

Something I think we should do with the next update/reset is increase price on the overall economy. Increasing values for all ores, wood, and such. I mean think about it, diamond are like 1,200 emp at the EMP (I think) and the first arriving guest gets iron tools, and 5,000 emp. They can already buy 3-4 diamonds plus they already have the tools. There isn't much "surviving" as if your getting the whole point of the game handed to you within the first time you join in. If we increase the economy, the whole economic system will (in my opinion) function much better.
/Warp Polis

mjoll9

Quote from: Towelie on Apr 14, 2021, 11:23 AM
Quote from: mjoll9 on Apr 14, 2021, 11:20 AMI'm pretty sure a decent chunk of remaining players, especially older ones, only stick around for the content plugins like pyrofishing/mining/slimefun. If those were to go I think you'll see a dip in players.
Then clearly we won't do that, but... Tell us what you think would help. Our playerbase kinda dipped a lot now and we need to be appealing to newer players too, so maybe give feedback from that perspective too?
I think minigames seems to be the big thing nowadays, bedwars etc. When the minigames world opens I think advertising the hell out of that might bring new players, especially if it's not just your average minigames that are everywhere or atleast a little different (maybe something that people can do on their own?). Survival unfortunately ain't it anymore, but advertising our other servers and bringing a playerbase to those could help increase survival's as well.

BluetigerESW

Apr 15, 2021, 12:48 PM #18 Last Edit: Apr 15, 2021, 03:13 PM by BluetigerESW
Make mcmmo actually usable.  The attempt to slow its progression so that it's not too fast made it slow to the point it's not worth grinding.

Even the 20x boost on weekends is still slow to the point that it really doesn't feel that worth it, so imagine how horrible it is without that boost.
I enjoy the act of xD-ing, like if you agree

Chill2000

Quote from: Ranger_113 on Apr 15, 2021, 01:59 AMSomething I think we should do with the next update/reset is increase price on the overall economy. Increasing values for all ores, wood, and such. I mean think about it, diamond are like 1,200 emp at the EMP (I think) and the first arriving guest gets iron tools, and 5,000 emp. They can already buy 3-4 diamonds plus they already have the tools. There isn't much "surviving" as if your getting the whole point of the game handed to you within the first time you join in. If we increase the economy, the whole economic system will (in my opinion) function much better.
This is a really good point, changing the economy will be really difficult however maybe nerfing the start kit is a good start? Maybe just include food a couple torches and a wooden axe or something?
Quote from: xavidram on Dec 22, 2013, 09:37 AMThe internet: where men are men, women are men, and children are FBI agents.

BluetigerESW

Apr 15, 2021, 03:02 PM #20 Last Edit: Apr 15, 2021, 03:11 PM by BluetigerESW
Quote from: mjoll9 on Apr 15, 2021, 09:01 AM
Quote from: Towelie on Apr 14, 2021, 11:23 AM
Quote from: mjoll9 on Apr 14, 2021, 11:20 AMI'm pretty sure a decent chunk of remaining players, especially older ones, only stick around for the content plugins like pyrofishing/mining/slimefun. If those were to go I think you'll see a dip in players.
Then clearly we won't do that, but... Tell us what you think would help. Our playerbase kinda dipped a lot now and we need to be appealing to newer players too, so maybe give feedback from that perspective too?
I think minigames seems to be the big thing nowadays, bedwars etc. When the minigames world opens I think advertising the hell out of that might bring new players, especially if it's not just your average minigames that are everywhere or atleast a little different (maybe something that people can do on their own?). Survival unfortunately ain't it anymore, but advertising our other servers and bringing a playerbase to those could help increase survival's as well.
100% agree with this! Survival isn't popular anymore, gotta go through different avenues to expand which in turn will help survival as well.

Quote from: Chill2000 on Apr 15, 2021, 01:07 PM
Quote from: Ranger_113 on Apr 15, 2021, 01:59 AMSomething I think we should do with the next update/reset is increase price on the overall economy. Increasing values for all ores, wood, and such. I mean think about it, diamond are like 1,200 emp at the EMP (I think) and the first arriving guest gets iron tools, and 5,000 emp. They can already buy 3-4 diamonds plus they already have the tools. There isn't much "surviving" as if your getting the whole point of the game handed to you within the first time you join in. If we increase the economy, the whole economic system will (in my opinion) function much better.
This is a really good point, changing the economy will be really difficult however maybe nerfing the start kit is a good start? Maybe just include food a couple torches and a wooden axe or something?
Agree with this too, survival has never really felt like actual survival to me personally because (especially compared to my experience with factions over the years) everything feels extremely easy/no effort to obtain, largely in part to the economy being broken, most people having fly so there's almost no risk of death, as well as now a days mending existing so you can make one set of tools and you never have make another again (although obviously as a core feature that's not something we can really control, of course).  It just feels to me like the only thing that's any effort to grind for/obtain at all is the pyrofishing upgrades.  But personally I find that really tedious and you can only stand in one spot and fish for so long before it gets boring.
I enjoy the act of xD-ing, like if you agree

Towelie

I kinda wrote the whole post focusing of the example of Slimefun but this post is not at all asking to remove Slimefun and other such plugins, I am merely asking you, the players, what do you want added/removed from survival and if someone says something concise enough we can start a poll based on that.
Sorry, my bad, should've been more clear.


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Psst, got a Nintendo Switch? Add me -> SW-6574-1607-3796

Towelie

Quote from: Kaninka on Apr 14, 2021, 03:10 PMWell it depends on what people mean with simpler times..

We once had a complete Vanilla Minecraft server.. but once you have done the big milestones, people slowly stopped playing Vanilla and returned to Survival.
Any game that doesn't add new things slowly becomes stagnate and people lose their reason to play :)

Survival certainly got a lot of plugins, the most popular are most likely Slimefun, Pyrofishing and Pyromining.
Is it too many? Maybe, but if you start removing them, then the reason becomes too few things, it is after all hard to satisfy everyone.

A possible solution, would be that you could do something like /pyromining off or /pyrofishing off. So you could basically go mining/fishing and you just don't get the items from them.
They would still exist for the people that want them, but they could be turned off for the people that feels forced to use them :)
Unsure if it is even possible to make the plugins do that, but it is a compromise in a way :)  :zombie:
That is not possible unless pyro adds that as a feature, so this should be a suggestion to Pyro via his plugin pages on spigot or discord server rather than something for me to do.


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FishNChips

Quote from: Towelie on Apr 15, 2021, 05:01 PMI kinda wrote the whole post focusing of the example of Slimefun but this post is not at all asking to remove Slimefun and other such plugins, I am merely asking you, the players, what do you want added/removed from survival and if someone says something concise enough we can start a poll based on that.
Sorry, my bad, should've been more clear.
Although I know you were looking for these responses, I feel as if we should take into consideration the economy at this point. Survival isn't survival, and instead of focusing on pyro and addons, we should focus on the base, the concrete of this, not the decorations.
/Warp Polis

omelott

If survival was more about "survival," I don't I don't think the server would still be around. There's only so much you can do in survival Minecraft before you've basically done everything and you're ready to quit. We have a lot of plugins because they give players more things to do.

One of the constant things I hear from players who no longer play or are on the verge of quitting is that they feel  like they've done everything and have nothing left to do. The solution then, in my opinion, is to continue adding plugins that give players who are older something to continue working forward to.

I think pyrofishing and mining were a  good start, and I know a few older players who really like those plugins. But the initial investment they require is very cheap (most players will have a maxed out pick/fishing rod within a day to a week of joining). The upfront rewards for pyrofishing and mining are also very lucrative, but most players end up quitting after a few months of grinding because the endgame rewards/buffs (augments/vessels) are useless/not worth the time and fishing in one spot/mining in a straight line for hours on end gets to be very boring.

So id like to see some new plug-in(s) implemented that is specifically meant for us older players, which demand a rather expensive upfront investment. But it must also have endgame rewards that are worth working towards and not be as boring as fishing/mining.

Just my opinion.