[Survival] Help needed from players!

[Towelie]

Hey players of Survival! Yes you! We need your help.
I want to find out one thing: What causes guests to leave the server after joining it for a few minutes?
I believe if we can record all answers from all guests on that matter, and try to fix the top ~3-5 , we will have more remaining guests and we wouldn't be put in the position we were last night (where there were 16 players online, 60% of them were staff and there was only a single guest).
We need more new players and we need them to stay! I realize Survival is not exactly popular these days amongst Minecraft players but I am also not giving up on Survival. While it's obvious, we've spread past that these days, in my eyes, Survival is still the thing that started it all and has a huge emotional meaning.

Personally, I think MC 1.11-1.14 will help us as they are geared towards improving survival.

@Katherine   - Make sure to remind me of this because I have one big flaw... I forget to follow-through. I don't do it because I don't care, I do it because I have the memory of a goldfish. However that's why I got a right hand.

[Towelie]

@Katherine

[Lucy_23x]

Honestly, I don't think guests and preferably members being picked on by mods and banned when they haven't been on the server as long isn't helping.

[Fractalion]

I agree with Lucy to some extent.

I've been meaning to bring this up for a while, but I don't think that it's really worth yelling at every person that breaks a single block in a protected location. I understand asking them to stop if they're going to town trying to break something, or if they are actually destroying a building, but I feel that a lot of guests get frustrated and leave when a staff member yells at them for "testing to see if it's protected". I know and you know they could just use a stick, but they probably don't know that.

Also: I used to see a lot of guests getting frustrated at the lack of a response from staff when talking in local chat. When there are no staff members in a certain world then no staff members see the local chat in that world. I posted my suggestion for fixing this on that topic about removing local chat if you want to go find that.

[Towelie]

I agree with Lucy to some extent.

I've been meaning to bring this up for a while, but I don't think that it's really worth yelling at every person that breaks a single block in a protected location. I understand asking them to stop if they're going to town trying to break something, or if they are actually destroying a building, but I feel that a lot of guests get frustrated and leave when a staff member yells at them for "testing to see if it's protected". I know and you know they could just use a stick, but they probably don't know that.

Also: I used to see a lot of guests getting frustrated at the lack of a response from staff when talking in local chat. When there are no staff members in a certain world then no staff members see the local chat in that world. I posted my suggestion for fixing this on that topic about removing local chat if you want to go find that.

@Cr1_98 @misspiggy95 @smallfry5545  - Please make sure this is looked into. I much agree our staff can be a bit intimidating and for no good reason

[Katherine]

They join in the lobby, so some of them disappear to parkour and creative too.

It's worth hanging in lobby to see if they go to survival first, then ask them.

[Pookalton]

I don't play much anymore, but from my experience, people abuse guests because they are new, and staff is too strict, so if I guest missed a rule or accidentally breaks a rule, they get banned without knowing how to request an unban.

[JinxOnTheLoose]

Also remember that a lot of players join thinking it's Pixelmon too

[nmgod]

2 things I would try.

1. Instead of placing them at spawn, place them at /random. Players may try to do stuff at spawn but everything is protected, why not place them at /random and maybe send them a message with details or place a book in their inv with some basic commands and details.

2. Give them a better starter kit. Give them like 1 set of diamond tools and gear. Dying to an OP mob in the first minutes would make anyone rage quit. Also maybe give them some building materials.

[Kingcozza]

There's multiple reasons:

They've been listed above but to elaborate, here's my view.

Staff confronting too harshly:
- A guest breaks blocks, they're new they don't know the rules, nobody sits there for the first 30minutes of joining a server being lectured on what to do, it's boring. You jump in and explore the world. I've seen a few staff come at these guests really harshly, being borderline rude to them and looking down on them, I can't pick names specifically but it's being handled completely wrong which causes them to shy out and leave, which then results in them being banned for evading.

When a new player joins:
- This one is a little different, the community all welcomes a new person but don't make them feel welcome, it's a difficult thing to word, but I'll use an example: A new player joins, everyone says welcome but what then? nobody speaks to them unless they've made some form of contribution. I've found myself getting a guest started more times than members of staff. a full set of iron armour and tools costs less than 5k, which is made by voting. Give them a few building blocks, it's 1k for a stack of logs (around that). It takes 5 minutes out of your so busy schedules to teleport and address yourself to them, help them out and give them a little hope that they can go far in the server.

Other servers:
- Sometimes a player joins and goes straight to maybe parkour or creative, as the lobby is linked to survival we receive the notification they joined, but then they leave straight away. Maybe adding "Someone went to this server" I don't know, that may cause spam but at least we see where they're going.

That's a few reasons, if I find more I will observe and point back to this post.

[Kingcozza]

2 things I would try.

1. Instead of placing them at spawn, place them at /random. Players may try to do stuff at spawn but everything is protected, why not place them at /random and maybe send them a message with details or place a book in their inv with some basic commands and details.

2. Give them a better starter kit. Give them like 1 set of diamond tools and gear. Dying to an OP mob in the first minutes would make anyone rage quit. Also maybe give them some building materials.

We had things like this originally, a starter book but they don't get read.

There was also kit starter which gave iron tools a while back, it now gives stone. Diamond isn't a good idea and could potentially break the economy (in the long term with more players joining). Iron maybe as it's a lot easier to find than diamond and isn't going to break instantly. Currently you get a guest helmet which is leather and does jack shit for defense.

[nmgod]

2 things I would try.

1. Instead of placing them at spawn, place them at /random. Players may try to do stuff at spawn but everything is protected, why not place them at /random and maybe send them a message with details or place a book in their inv with some basic commands and details.

2. Give them a better starter kit. Give them like 1 set of diamond tools and gear. Dying to an OP mob in the first minutes would make anyone rage quit. Also maybe give them some building materials.

We had things like this originally, a starter book but they don't get read.

There was also kit starter which gave iron tools a while back, it now gives stone. Diamond isn't a good idea and could potentially break the economy (in the long term with more players joining). Iron maybe as it's a lot easier to find than diamond and isn't going to break instantly. Currently you get a guest helmet which is leather and does jack shit for defense.

You cant make the book to complicated or it wont be read, just need like a 1 pager of for more info on the server check out /spawn or something.

I dont really think diamond would break the economy. If thats the case then Diamond pick, axe and shovel, and sword and iron/enchanted iron armour

[Hookify]

All replies I've read so far seem to be about making it easier on new players. For the most part I disagree with these proposals. With this being a Survival server if any changes must be made they should make things harder on the players... There's no real gratification whatsoever in starting out on a "survival" server and being given everything without having to do shit.... (says (probably) the oldest player on this server

As far as Mods being strict towards Guests: They should be! If a new player starts griefing it's because he/she did NOT read the rules at spawn. Mods should not have to be on "babysitting detail" all day. Neither should they spam the chat, but that's a different story... (still old 'n' grumpy but I'm actually quite serious!)

On the other hand I would like to see that in a playful way newcomers are being taught some of the basic rules. That could be through a set of advancing stages in which you learn and are questioned about the rules in order to advance (using warp signs or whatever). These stages should preferably be part of great build that inspires new players to be part of this server for longer than just a few minutes. Look at W1 spawn right now, it's beautifully built but most times there's really nothing to do. If something like that would be made into a short introductory tour for new players with some useful interaction/learning going on it would certainly be better than the "cold start" they get now.

.....them lazy motherf#ckn kids these days....

[Darth_Noob]

Tbh, not sure why guests leave, but, if you think about how sft has grown from how it was, and it will continue to grow, no doubt about that, but, maybe we could give them a better tool set rather than just wooden tools.

[Lucy_23x]

As far as Mods being strict towards Guests: They should be! If a new player starts griefing it's because he/she did NOT read the rules at spawn. Mods should not have to be on "babysitting detail" all day. Neither should they spam the chat, but that's a different story... (still old 'n' grumpy but I'm actually quite serious!)

"Woo Hoo I've just joined a new server and instead of getting to know people and explore I'm going to stand and read the rules for 15 minutes!" Said no one ever.
I hate it when someone says to a guest "well you should have read the rules." It's just stupid. People have said before on other posts that this server is for younger kids, and younger kids want to play and have fun, not sit and learn rules off by heart.

When a new player joins:
- This one is a little different, the community all welcomes a new person but don't make them feel welcome, it's a difficult thing to word, but I'll use an example: A new player joins, everyone says welcome but what then? nobody speaks to them unless they've made some form of contribution. I've found myself getting a guest started more times than members of staff. a full set of iron armour and tools costs less than 5k, which is made by voting. Give them a few building blocks, it's 1k for a stack of logs (around that). It takes 5 minutes out of your so busy schedules to teleport and address yourself to them, help them out and give them a little hope that they can go far in the server.

I agree with this and I find I have done the same. The term, "mods are not item dispensers" is a bit cruel. If they ask for food, just give them some food? When I was a guest I struggled so hard to get food it was unreal. Of coarse if they are demanding beacons and enchanted items, then it's understandable that you say "I can't give you that, sorry." But to reject basic needs is a bit harsh. People may say giving them items defeats the term of "survival", but, playing "get murdered by mods or starve to death, etc" is worse to play - bin there done that.
I've also had this said to me, "that is not my duty" or something. Real example: I asked a staff to help a guest build a house. Simple, I had been helping them but I had to go. The single response was, "that's not my job." Of coarse its your job, "helping someone build a house" and "building a house for someone when they have no participation or opinion on what you build" are two different things. Tp'ing to someone and asking if they want help is a bit vague, give some examples, "protections? Need helping building a house?" Etc, so the guest knows what it is they can ask for - which may help the "give me beacons" and demanding things from mods.

This other point is a bit... "Rarer" but I will put it out anyway.
Some guests may not talk. You can say "press t to talk" but that won't always make them actually say anything. I've been able to communicate with a guest like this before, tell him how to do /sethome and what not, helped him build a house, and everything, but he never typed a word to me. Just because a guest may not talk, does not mean they are ignoring you. If asking them straight up does not work, find different ways of communicating.

If being so called "professional" does not work, try a different angle. "Professionalism" may intimidate them. Talk to them like you are their friend, not a teacher.

The last point I would like to make, is that recently I have seen the amount of bans for X-Ray gone up. I don't know if this is a coincidence, or that I even need to bring this up, but I am. All I can really say is, if there is a possibility that there is a guest X-raying, don't freak out about it. Sure, maybe they got 5 more diamonds than they should have, but it's not going to damage and destroy and burn the economy as much as say, me X-raging - because I have fort 3 and all that jazz on my stuff. I'm not saying X-Ray is good and amazing, I'm just saying I feel like people are over reacting. Also this:
"Are you X-raying?"
"No"
"You're lying, don't lie. Put all your items in lava and you now have 0 emp, oh, and also you're being banned."
That's gonna sound pretty crap to the guest. And if they were innocent, they are either going to rage on an unban, or just leave. Or do a very polite unban because they just want to get bloody unbanned.
Why not warn them a first time, and take say, 50% items off, how much of those things do you know are X-rayed? Like... FOOD can't be gotten through X-ray <-- and guests have been asked to destroy their food.

Of coarse there is always a handful of people who are dreadful, come online and spam random crap and do ultra bad things, I'm not saying we tell these people it's okay to do that, because I know someone will say "but Lucy we can't let people X-ray freely" use you head I'm not saying that about any of the points I made.

[Towelie]

So uhm, ok harsh staff. I get that, but what about the other reasons? Could we ask the guests instead of speculating please because I want to know what the guests say not what we think is the problem.

@Katherine  - Make sure this is being followed through by staff and players

[one227]

I feel when someone joins everyone is welcome welcome.
But then people don't really reply to there questions.
I would like to see staff go randomly to new people just to pop and say hello and have a little chat with them.
I think if staff would do this more people would feel engaged in the server.

[MrRed2016]

I feel when someone joins everyone is welcome welcome.
But then people don't really reply to there questions.
I would like to see staff go randomly to new people just to pop and say hello and have a little chat with them.
I think if staff would do this more people would feel engaged in the server.

If staff did this players would potentially think they did something wrong, get frightened and leave.

[Lucy_23x]

I feel when someone joins everyone is welcome welcome.
But then people don't really reply to there questions.
I would like to see staff go randomly to new people just to pop and say hello and have a little chat with them.
I think if staff would do this more people would feel engaged in the server.

If staff did this players would potentially think they did something wrong, get frightened and leave.

Give them a few blocks of wood or something to show friendlyness. I ain't gonna run away from someone giving me free stuff?

[Stancrazy]

I feel when someone joins everyone is welcome welcome.
But then people don't really reply to there questions.
I would like to see staff go randomly to new people just to pop and say hello and have a little chat with them.
I think if staff would do this more people would feel engaged in the server.

If staff did this players would potentially think they did something wrong, get frightened and leave.

I disagree. First off a newly joining guest may not even know who the staff are and what their rank looks like. To them, it could simply be a bunch of different funny colours. If per say a staff did introduce themselves, this would immediately provide a comfortable and friendly feel to their experience.

Heck, I've made a few friends from guests alone just by chatting with them occasionally. However, if you were to introduce yourself in a  cold demeanor who wouldn't feel uncomfortable and start to dislike you?

This may be my own opinion, and I know a majority of staff aren't like this, but I've noticed when new staff (mostly jmods) are promoted, they tend to possess a sense of superiority. Some believe themselves greater than others simply because they possess some coloured rank looking down on "players". This leading to a closed personality and being rude on occasion. We need to remember that you are a player too. A ranking in an online game does not immediately make you superior to another.

Sorry for the wall of text

[tree43]

One thing I saw once was a player was leaving (I tried to get them to stay)because they had a rank on another server and was a guest on SFT. Idk if this is really useful info but just gonna throw it out there.

[xJade]

I think it's the lack of players there is in the lobby, and how most players go off to parkour to play there and never come back because of the lack of players. Maybe add a plugin instead of having a separate parkour world. Like have another minigame like /ama join default but instead let it be parkour so we won't lose that much players due to them joining an empty server, what I also like to do is go to lobby when someone new joins so I can help them out and let them see how friendly staff is.

You know try and convince them to stay, show them what we have, ect.

[Kamer]

Also remember that a lot of players join thinking it's Pixelmon too

I've seen this quite a bit as well. A guest joins, then they ask something in chat similar to "Where do I choose my pokemon?"

[henrywclayton]

Reading through these comments, I have noticed that people have very different opinions on how guests act, but ever guest is different, and they all need treating differently, for example some players want to do all of survival for themselves and others want some help setting up. If its possible, start them off with an option of whether they want help or if they want to play survival. If they want help, it should trigger some alert in the mod system with priority over players with more uptime, wheras if they choose to do full on survival, randomly tp them to somewhere with trees!

Also I agree with with not yelling at guests for breaking one block, I remember when I was a guest I got yelled at for breaking torches in a mine, within around 20 mins of showing up. At the time i acted very scared as i did not want to banned, but some people can't help but resist authority

[Towelie]

I continue to feel like we should get these directly from guests by asking them and not guessing what guests woudl say :S @Katherine