[Survival] The Unpopular Update

[Its0nlyJames]

It's weird that I'm thinking this but... I would be in favour of a complete reset! I personally think that the players that are true to SFT will stick by us, I think it'd be fun

[tobminer]

If you do a full reset, half of your community is gone. Think of it that way, does economy mean more to you then players?

And if it does, then that's sad, seeming as SFT wouldn't even be a server without donations/help from many players.

If they leave due to that then they never truly cared about our community anyways. We got through the last full reset and we could do it again.

Are you kidding me? If there is a full reset, if people leave, I wouldn't blame them, if they spent hundreds/thousands of hours on this, then got it blew away, then screw it, leaving. Idk why you people like to have full resets and spend more and more hours of your precious time.

[darknuju]

If you do a full reset, half of your community is gone. Think of it that way, does economy mean more to you then players?

And if it does, then that's sad, seeming as SFT wouldn't even be a server without donations/help from many players.

If they leave due to that then they never truly cared about our community anyways. We got through the last full reset and we could do it again.

Are you kidding me? If there is a full reset, if people leave, I wouldn't blame them, if they spent hundreds/thousands of hours on this, then got it blew away, then screw it, leaving. Idk why you people like to have full resets and spend more and more hours of your precious time.

Well did you not have fun doing it and if you did then you should have fun doing it again and if you didn't have fun well it's a virtual game why did you do it in the first place then?

I have been around here for quite a bit longer than you and thus have seen quite a few more resets each time people say exactly what you are saying. But when we reset they just do it all again, yeah it is sort of a pain but think about this:


By performing a full reset with these new changes to keep the economy in balance (hopefully) we will end up making the game more appealing to new players and more fun for EVERYONE but if we don't because you and several other players have worked hard and don't want to lose your virtual monehs and stuff then that is saying your virtual items you HAD FUN working to get is MORE IMPORTANT than doing what is necessary to make the game fun for EVERYONE which is pretty selfish in my opinion.


I swear it should be the memories and experience that people hold closer than their virtual items that they will someday forget about and won't really influence their lives in the long run but a lot of us will always remember the fun times and people we met

[tobminer]

Okay, but if there was a full reset in 2012 and it didn't fix this, why do you think it will now?

I mean, tow said it himself, he said 100m for one player and the rest of the server would be 1mish, is what it is right now. Just x2 and you got it. It's basic math, so the ratio is 200:10m, which is not near how much every player has if all money was going to be split into 10m's, only about 50 people would get 10m then it would go lower. So economy is fine, no one has a problem about it except Towelie.

So listen to the community, not just yourself.

[darknuju]

Okay, but if there was a full reset in 2012 and it didn't fix this, why do you think it will now?

I mean, tow said it himself, he said 100m for one player and the rest of the server would be 1mish, is what it is right now. Just x2 and you got it. It's basic math, so the ratio is 200:10m, which is not near how much every player has if all money was going to be split into 10m's, only about 50 people would get 10m then it would go lower. So economy is fine, no one has a problem about it except Towelie.

So listen to the community, not just yourself.

You make a fair point but I was not as much saying that a reset is ABSOLUTELY necessary at this point I was more so trying to point out that people should not just "slam on the brakes" whenever a reset is brought up or suggested.

But there are also other reasons for a full reset like the world getting reset so that there is more space to build for more players (yes the world will fill up again but still) not to mention i don't know much about 1.9 but if it has new world generation stuff then a world reset would be good.

We also do full resets because it gives us a chance to make big changes and put them into play in order to help the community.

But the economy does have problems (and personally I think a lot of it is tied to autoshops) and Towelie is not the ONLY person concerned about it YOU and several others may not be concerned about it because you have plenty of money but with how high prices are new players or players who aren't yet quite as wealthy it makes it extremely difficult to get money if prices keep raising to try to combat the people who have millions upon millions.


AND in the end I think we all have to remember that this is all a video game this money is not real and doesn't translate to anything real, yes people have worked hard for it but what was more important to them the destination (having lots of money) or the journey (working hard and putting forth your all to get the money)

[tobminer]

In the end, once you find a method to making money on here, it's not hard to make, despite your balance.

[GRIMI_]

Okay, but if there was a full reset in 2012 and it didn't fix this, why do you think it will now?

I mean, tow said it himself, he said 100m for one player and the rest of the server would be 1mish, is what it is right now. Just x2 and you got it. It's basic math, so the ratio is 200:10m, which is not near how much every player has if all money was going to be split into 10m's, only about 50 people would get 10m then it would go lower. So economy is fine, no one has a problem about it except Towelie.

So listen to the community, not just yourself.

Tob, nothing can ever stabilise SFT economy due to money being created and brought into existence by the emp. The point in taxes and resets is just to slow down the rate of inflation to try and prolong the economy. A full reset works best because it gives a chance to completely change the prices of items, and therefore affects the stability of the server economy greater. It also immediately puts everyone on an equal balance, meaning those huge fortunes no longer exist. The reason these taxes will have very little effect on the economy imo, is that those with large fortunes rarely spend money in ways that are effected by most of these changes, but also that it has been so long without intervention, and the richest people have monopolised certain     markets eg mallusa. Cty currently has 211mill and possibly more in assets. With the lotto changes, if cty bought 10 tickets every lottery, and never won, that'd be 5275 lotteries before he ran out of money. Assuming the lotto draws once every 24hrs, It'll take ~14 years before he runs out of money. And most likely, he will win at least a few of them.

[tobminer]

So towelie needs to let people buy unlimited tickets in /lotto, it works well for getting rid of money.

Also, what's the incentive of playing if you know all your hours of work will just be reset? You might aswell be spending your time sitting on a chair doing nothing, if this is what it means,  your spending your time on something that will just be blown away. No point there.

[darknuju]

So towelie needs to let people buy unlimited tickets in /lotto, it works well for getting rid of money.

Also, what's the incentive of playing if you know all your hours of work will just be reset? You might aswell be spending your time sitting on a chair doing nothing, if this is what it means,  your spending your time on something that will just be blown away. No point there.

Unlimited tickets won't work if you buy 1000 tickets you are probably gonna win

[Ultimatum599]

I think it is funny how whenever a post like this is made everyone says we need reset because 1 of the thousands of players on SFT has over 200 million EMP. Instead of focusing on the richest people who half of them rarely play meaning their money is basically taken out of the economy, I feel we need to promote buying and selling among players instead of raising taxes more and more causing players to want to hoard more money. Also IMO a full reset would be frustrating because I have donated in /buy for heads/beacons/ and emp so it would be of great loss to lose all that when you have put hundreds of dollars into the server to support it. Also if we are going to act like this is a real economy, an economy doesn't just reset randomly. Just some thoughts of mine on all the comments.
P.s. Tow I am also not on the donator board, and talking to other people I don't think like any are so idk if that's the place to discuss auto shop taxes.


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[nyllekFTW]

I think it is funny how whenever a post like this is made everyone says we need reset because 1 of the thousands of players on SFT has over 200 million EMP. Instead of focusing on the richest people who half of them rarely play meaning their money is basically taken out of the economy, I feel we need to promote buying and selling among players instead of raising taxes more and more causing players to want to hoard more money. Also IMO a full reset would be frustrating because I have donated in /buy for heads/beacons/ and emp so it would be of great loss to lose all that when you have put hundreds of dollars into the server to support it. Just some thoughts of mine on all the comments.


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He is part of the problem though, what is he going to do with the money? He can probably buy out all the diamonds from major sellers and cause inflation. He could practically do anything, along with the fact that half of the Elite/Legend/Staff population usually have money in the upwards of 10 million. It doesn't even take effort at this point to make money, just sell things for higher price and after a while you have 1 million. That is why I think a full reset is in order, because if you can make a million just by putting a tiny bit of effort into it, what is stopping you from becoming the next 100m+ player?

[Ultimatum599]

^ you don't play this server right now do you xd so many things wrong with that. First off ctyfrmr doesn't spend a dime on anything and in the last week he has lost over 10 mil because of the fair sell prices at his auto.
Second in all my time on SFT at this point it is the hardest to actually make money. Their have been plenty of ways to make "fast" money in my time here and right now there are none. To make money you actually have to play some. You don't just poof and have 100 mil let alone 1 mil. Also items are at the lowest they have been in my time here, rare crate items are selling for 100-200k, beacons are selling low as 3 mil, enchanted tools are the easiest things ever to make, and player heads people have a hard time buying for half of 1mil they usually are. People aren't moving money around because it isn't even worth it anymore.
I think the major problem right now personally is the vote parties that occur because they are just giving people too much "fast" money with vote tokens and intern are making things in /vs the lowest prices they have been in a long time.


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[nyllekFTW]

^ you don't play this server right now do you xd so many things wrong with that.


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Do I need to play it all the time to have an opinion?

Just check /pstats and I even have a higher weekly uptime..

[Towelie]

I'd like to confirm that we do not have a planned full reset at this moment so I am excluding that.

[tobminer]

Okay, nyllek, it's not hard to make money, people will still do it after full reset. And cty already has 15000+ diamonds, so he is good with the most rare ore. When was the last time you saw him make a big purchase? He must really like having money, and so do I. If he wanted to do something with it, he would have done it ages ago, he has donated spawners, plentiful of all blocks/ores and everything in minecraft, including a command block.

So Idk why you think he is going to spend it all randomly, and you can't keep making big server decisions always basing it off of cty's money.

Also dark, I have been on server's with unlimited lotto tickets, and people DO lose with 1000 tickets, and 1 ticket= 850 dollars in lotto, so even if they won, they would lose money.


I think the only choice tow has to make if he wants to "fix" the economy is to start selling permissions such as ban perms, donator shop items and ranks with special permissions. If he really wants to fix it this badly, he would do that, but he is obviously just trying to point it on the players, not trying to put it on the donator shop/perms.

If he were to implement ban perms for a large amount of EMP, I suggested applying on forums, and towelie or an admin would have to accept the application.

[Eternal_Jamie]

If he were to implement ban perms for a large amount of EMP, I suggested applying on forums, and towelie or an admin would have to accept the application.

No. If you're not staff, you don't get to ban people or decide if someone should be banned, nor should you. Simples.  (If this was intended as a joke then good job, it's a hilariously dumb idea).

[nyllekFTW]

Okay, nyllek, it's not hard to make money, people will still do it after full reset. And cty already has 15000+ diamonds, so he is good with the most rare ore. When was the last time you saw him make a big purchase? He must really like having money, and so do I. If he wanted to do something with it, he would have done it ages ago, he has donated spawners, plentiful of all blocks/ores and everything in minecraft, including a command block.

So Idk why you think he is going to spend it all randomly, and you can't keep making big server decisions always basing it off of cty's money.

Half the reason why I am basing it off his money is if he decides to spend it willy-nilly the economy will most likely be fucked up, and I feel like someone shouldn't have the power to do that. Also, how am I making the decisions? I am voicing an opinion. Not the same thing.

[Brightpkz]

Honestly, I feel like the community is pushing a lot of blame for the bad economy as of late to the auto shop owners...

That is absolutely unfair to us, if you look at /money top there's also a portion of people holding >50 mil that DO NOT run auto shops. Honestly, I don't understand what's the big deal with a tax increase. It's a game, not life, let it go, play along. Like a 5% tax increase will do anything significant towards this case we have right now... People will just calculate and raise prices, in the end, the effect will be the same, less people will shop, and since there's more stock, their prices will drop again. I don't even understand what's with all this rant... It's a game server, not life, you gotta think about the new players who start at 5000... The contrast in money owned by different players is way too big...

And clearly, there are auto shops who are dominating the business completely... With well calculated prices, the owner maintains a balanced buy and sell rate. From that, the money earned per transaction builds up, causing the owner to be substantially rich without doing anything really. On the other hand, there are auto shops that are super successful even with the worst prices because of their stocks.

When an auto shop gets popular, it gets harder for other auto shops to do good. Don't just blame it on us... We're not the ones rolling in 200 millions of EMP...

I recommend the removal of player ran auto shops and make a replacement donator item for the permission owners. And instead, EMP should run an auto shop that has even worse prices than EMP. Pretty soon, items will be priced at where they once were.

[rhadoo13]

If I had 1 EMP for every time someone told that autoshops / rich players are to blame for the economy, I would have a wealth of 2 cty's .

tl;dr Autoshops are not to blame for the current prices. Full reset will only eliminate the problem temporarily. Closing the EMP or capping the level of transactions will force players to trade more of the right stuff. Taxes are good. Autos and rich players are not the devil's spawn.


I don't agree with any of the players that shift the blame every single time on the autoshops or rich players when we're discussing ideas to improve the economy. It's not the autoshops, it's the natural state of things that appears each and every single time you put money and goods in a game. There will always be players that are more interested and better at trading than others. Some are good PVPers, some are good builders and some are good traders. If someone fails to earn money, then it's silly to start blaming the "economy" because that player has no clue how it works. Even if you place taxes upon taxes, eliminate shops and even BAN players from trading, some dude will always find a way to have more than the other. If that's how they get their kicks from the game, then let it be, how does that influence your life and gaming experience?

Prices have gone down (not up) for almost everything, and it's not the autoshops to blame, it's how the game is designed. It's called overproduction. With diamonds, for example, prices have gone down because you can mine a stack, with or without good tools, but you only use some of it to make a good armor and tools. The rest is for trading. It doesn't take much to see that shortly everyone has diamonds and when you have a lot of some stuff, prices go down. That's how things work in real life as well. It's simple supply and demand. Yes, they're rare, but when you have a ton of them on the server, they're not so special anymore. Same thing for all the other items as well.
 
Even with full reset of stats and worlds, it wouldn't take long for the entire situation to reach the same point, because it's easy to farm or mine stuff, goods don't deteriorate and repairing stuff is cheap. Ironically, the more popular the server gets, the more players will mine for stuff. More stuff on the market, cheaper the price for items.

I understand that taxes are being used to take away money circulating in the economy, but players should be taking a role in this struggle too. Autoshop owners should take action in restoring item values, by increasing their sell prices and lowering their buy prices. It's a risky move to make, but it could contribute to a more-stabalized economy.

Again, it's not the autoshops fault that the prices are low, it's the tons of diamonds and other stuff that players mined and stocked. An auto cannot force a price on someone, it doesn't work this way. An auto only reflects the current level of prices that people are willing to buy and sell. I don't care if it's 1k or 10k a diamond, it only depends on you, the player, how much are you willing to sell or pay for an item. And MOST players made it clear, they want to buy at 1600. And if it wasn't for the EMP to buy all diamonds at 1600 regardless of the quantity, the prices would drop even lower. Personally, I think the price is cheap and I know that diamonds are difficult to find, but I didn't imposed this price, the entire trading community did. If you want to reestablish the prices from before, you only need to do one thing: stop mining . Less stuff to sell, higher the price. But we know how feasible this is.

The only things that I think it will add value to the economical aspect of the game are:

1. Stop the EMP from buying or selling stuff from players or put a cap to the volume of trading. If the EMP doesn't buy or sell everything like a black hole, then a player HAS to find a buyer or a seller. If no one wants an item, then it's high time to look for something else to produce. And each item the EMP sells an item means that another player didn't sold his. Let money come in through votes and donations and take money out with taxes. Let players decide what an item is worth and they will orient themselves to the most profitable items.

2. Make at least 5-6 auto signs free to place for everyone. Make things convenient for other players to trade. The reason there aren't too many player shops around is not because of the autos or the low prices, it's because they're boring and difficult to manage. There are over 100 items in the game, holding a stock of everything to sell is difficult. And wasting time waiting in your shop for clients is boring. Plus, it will help with the wealth distribution problems as well.

The last thing that I want to mention is that there is all this high and mighty talk about the community and the feeling of the community, yet when there is a problem, a lot of players start to point fingers and holding others to blame, even when it's not their fault.

then some other greedy autoshop owner ...

Really? Was that thing really necessary? :/

Open discussions are good and help the server, witchunting is not. Let's not go down on this road. The autoshop was made available as a donator feature, no one imposed it to anyone. It's stupid to shame someone that he's interested in trading more than other activities. Let players decide how they want to experience the game, even if the only thing he wants to do is to get 200 mil virtual currency. It's not up to you to decide how he/she should play. As long as it's not ruining the game for others, let them be.

[rhadoo13]

I think it is funny how whenever a post like this is made everyone says we need reset because 1 of the thousands of players on SFT has over 200 million EMP. Instead of focusing on the richest people who half of them rarely play meaning their money is basically taken out of the economy, I feel we need to promote buying and selling among players instead of raising taxes more and more causing players to want to hoard more money. Also IMO a full reset would be frustrating because I have donated in /buy for heads/beacons/ and emp so it would be of great loss to lose all that when you have put hundreds of dollars into the server to support it. Just some thoughts of mine on all the comments.


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He is part of the problem though, what is he going to do with the money? He can probably buy out all the diamonds from major sellers and cause inflation. He could practically do anything, along with the fact that half of the Elite/Legend/Staff population usually have money in the upwards of 10 million. It doesn't even take effort at this point to make money, just sell things for higher price and after a while you have 1 million. That is why I think a full reset is in order, because if you can make a million just by putting a tiny bit of effort into it, what is stopping you from becoming the next 100m+ player?

In theory, you're right, but it's highly impractical. Let's say that one day he wants to do exactly this thing. 200mil will buy him (let's say at 2200 emp per diamond) 90909 diamonds, that's 1420 stacks, which are 26 chests of diamonds. Trust me, there are way more than 26 chests of diamonds on the server (i have 1.5 already), he cannot get a monopoly on them and manipulate the price because others will sell again and prices will stay (almost) the same.

He has a lot of money, but no power to manipulate anything, just like every other player with less than 1 billion emp.

That's what I'm talking about, let's not cry wolf without evidence.

[tobminer]

Rhadoo, you have explained this in the best, most honest way I can think of, so I have to say:

Thank you Rhadoo.

[GRIMI_]

The point isn't that he can monopolise diamond sales, its that theres too much emp in the system altogether. The point of these tax changes is to try and burn a percentage of this emp to try and slow down the inflation caused by the emp. It's impossible to stabilize it, so we've got to try and slow it down so we have less frequent full resets. However, my point was that it's got to the point where these taxes will barely affect the situation, and a full reset is required. I think it's probably too late for this already.

[omelott]

In all honesty, I believe that players should become more self sufficient, when it comes to obtaining resources. I understand that taxes are being used to take away money circulating in the economy, but players should be taking a role in this struggle too. Autoshop owners should take action in restoring item values, by increasing their sell prices and lowering their buy prices. It's a risky move to make, but it could contribute to a more-stabalized economy.

Buying diamonds for 1,600 emp doesn't feel like minecraft to me. Last time I heard, diamonds were the rarest mineral in minecraft.

I really wish this would happen, but in reality it won't. If someone raises their prices like they should, then some other greedy autoshop owner won't. And then the person who raised their prices will make no money causing them to drop it again. Unless all autoshop owners did it collectively this will never happen.

If there was ever a chance, I'd love to see autoshop owners come to such an agreement. The economy relies on their choices, yet competition drives some owners ignorant of the struggles.

What if new players aren't granted 5,000 emp at the start? Pehaps taking away this feature could contribute to maintaining the amount of emp circulating in the economy.

Or what about voting rewards? Any player can easily earn anywhere from 16,000 - 40,000 emp from voting daily. Perhaps the rewards could be cut.

[tobminer]

If voting rewards are cut, next to no-one will vote for SFT, just reality.

Also, it's not easy changing auto prices, if your raise your sell price too high, you will be targeted (Lost 7m from this from diamonds).

Also, Grim, you say the word EMP everytime you say something on this post, so maybe not a full reset, but an Emporium-delete button.

[Towelie]

We're working on perhaps limiting the transactions for the emp and other regulations.
But yeah, from this point I do not wish to further increase the taxes at all.