New rule - getting banned 3 times for the same reason means permaban

Started by Towelie, Feb 23, 2021, 05:19 PM

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Towelie

First of all, I'd like to say that this is not some spur of the moment thing, but we needed such a rule for a while now:

- If you get banned 3 times for the same reason (not in a row, 3 times overall), you will get permanently banned from SFT with no chance of ever being unbanned.
- This does not apply to people that already have 3 bans for the same reason, but it will if they eg: have 3 now, and get one more, or have 2 now and get one more


This will be added to the rules soon.


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Fractalion

Although I don't participate in-game all that often anymore, I do still keep somewhat up to date on what's going on here on the forum. From what I've seen, this seems like a very positive change. I've noticed that there seems to be some resentment in the community regarding how some players get slaps on the wrist over toxicity over and over again, while some players aren't granted such leniency. How true this is I cannot speak on, as I am only referencing the opinions of others; I don't spend enough time in-game nowadays to have one of my own, but I've certainly seen enough people with this opinion that I don't believe it can be mere coincidence.

Hopefully this new policy will help curb the outbreaks of toxicity that I see people posting about now and then.

However! I do have one question about this new rule. You said that after the third ban of the same reason, that's it, it's permanent, but is there some sort of 'statute of limitations' in play here, or is it absolutely rigidly set in stone?

For example, say there's a player that had two bans for insulting other players and staff back in 2013, but since then has been an upstanding member of the community. If that person comes on one day, maybe they had a really bad day at work, lost their job or something, and after some minor inconvenience ends up unleashing their frustration on another player. Obviously they'd be banned for this --- before this it would probably be a temporary ban for a day or two to cool off or whatever, depending on the severity of their language, but without some limit this would be permanent.

I'm not saying this hypothetical player's conduct would be acceptable, not at all, but I wanted to give an example of when putting a limit on the timespan within which these three bans may have occurred would be useful.

American_Walrus

This is not a bad thing, but you guys need to make sure you keep yourselves accountable as well. If someone applies for an unban, and the Manager+ team decides that the ban was an overreaction or completely unnecessary, that ban should not be something that is considered towards this rule. Ignoring the idea of potential bias, consider the fact that you have children and young adults in staff roles, and things can go wrong sometimes.

Also, make sure you read and consider what Frac asks about in the reply above mine because it's a valid concern.



Towelie

Quote from: Fractalion on Feb 23, 2021, 06:35 PMHowever! I do have one question about this new rule. You said that after the third ban of the same reason, that's it, it's permanent, but is there some sort of 'statute of limitations' in play here, or is it absolutely rigidly set in stone?
absolutely set in stone because the situation is getting out of hand and we couldn't think of a better way to apply this impartially and with no exceptions.


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Towelie

Quote from: American_Walrus on Feb 23, 2021, 06:53 PMThis is not a bad thing, but you guys need to make sure you keep yourselves accountable as well. If someone applies for an unban, and the Manager+ team decides that the ban was an overreaction or completely unnecessary, that ban should not be something that is considered towards this rule. Ignoring the idea of potential bias, consider the fact that you have children and young adults in staff roles, and things can go wrong sometimes.

Also, make sure you read and consider what Frac asks about in the reply above mine because it's a valid concern.



That's definitely something we will have to consider and there is definitely going to be owner involvement in special cases. If you could help me list some repeatable ban reasons that you feel should not go to a global ban, let me know and we can make adjustments


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Fractalion

Quote from: Towelie on Feb 23, 2021, 07:02 PM
Quote from: Fractalion on Feb 23, 2021, 06:35 PMHowever! I do have one question about this new rule. You said that after the third ban of the same reason, that's it, it's permanent, but is there some sort of 'statute of limitations' in play here, or is it absolutely rigidly set in stone?
absolutely set in stone because the situation is getting out of hand and we couldn't think of a better way to apply this impartially and with no exceptions.

Thanks for the clarification. That's the feeling I got from the original post, but I wanted to double check.

As for what Walrus said, I agree that's a valid concern as well. Not just for new bans, but for old ones as well. Sometimes mistakes are made. I don't know what sort of tracking we have on the backend nowadays in terms of being able to know if a ban was deemed in error, or genuine, but that's something to consider.

Say for example if there happened to be another player in game named something like "Fractalious" and they were spamming the chat, so someone typed /ban Frac.... and then hit tab to autocomplete, and didn't notice that my name was autocompleted instead. Now that's a mark against my record, and although I have no intention of being banned for spamming in the future, it's important to make sure that the fact that that ban was an error is tracked somewhere.

Again, I have no idea what our ban tracking system looks like nowadays, I haven't been staff in ages, but with something like this I feel it's really important to make sure that whenever this rule is applied, a person's history is checked over very carefully before pulling the trigger.

In some cases it will be really easy. "Oh, well I can think of at least ten cases in the past where you were banned for this reason, I don't even need to look into it. I handled these cases myself." but there will be cases that are in a grey area.

MsDanteMoon

If you get banned 3 times for something strictly in game (ie griefing or stealing from players) would that also ban you permanently from the discord or just all the SFT minecraft servers? Also does the perm ban apply to non-minecraft servers SFT may have and SFT adjacent discords such as the emoji discord and the parrot's nest discords?
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